Reasons not to vote for John John.

[comastalker]

how about no plans for terrorists, and then we get attacked and I DIE. I think thats worse than taking oil from Iraq.

wtf is that ? you didn't ment that as being a real comment !?
man you suck.

1st point: You won't die, in your american bush-flavoured televisiondreams you maybe will, but not in the almost disappearing momentum called reality.
And even if you'll die, there will never be someone who is able to help you. Earn money (just kill some poor children and sell their organs) and buy yourself an nuclear hiding building and mail me, I'll personally visit and shoot you.

2nd point: The US do not only take oil. They fuckin kill (even civilists).
If you didn't see that on CNN, please tell me, I'll give you lesson about Mr. T "Propagandi" V. I did see that, it's a common fact among us communists, maoists (Yeah, there IS a difference) and hispanic reefer junkies killing and raping little girls

[Jeremy]

woah! Nice work Mr Vock! - if the modified awards were still going I'd nominate that for best post of the year!

However lets not get too fired up and try to keep things to a discussion - not an insult competition.

[wolfpac444]

Uhmm... in case you cats didn't know, you should take Matt's posts with a grain (or two) of salt.

[Matt]

oh snap! I got served...

2nd point: The US do not only take oil. They fuckin kill (even civilists).
If you didn't see that on CNN, please tell me, I'll give you lesson about Mr. T "Propagandi" V. I did see that, it's a common fact among us communists, maoists (Yeah, there IS a difference) and hispanic reefer junkies killing and raping little girls

what point are you trying to make? That the US kills people? So do terrorists. I guess I didn't see whatever on CNN, so you can give me a lesson now.

also, please dont kill me for building a 'nuclear hiding building'. Im afraid of them bombs

[420FootBager]

Jeremy I have stated many times on this forum that I believe in some amount of health care but not just free for everyone. There are a ton of people on welfare that are perfectly capable of working but choose not too…. I know 3 my self!!! I believe in disability and emergency medical help but I don't want to pay for some lazy ass’s Viagra!! Is there really anything wrong with that?

Also I was just wondering if someone had called me a socialist… Look at the post above mine.. A bit confusing right? While I believe Kerry has many socialist and some communist ideals I am aware that in the dictionary sense of the words he is neither.

I am and have been since age 11 a Libertarian. I believe in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Follow the constitution and don't hurt anyone or infringe upon anyone else’s rights. Other then that do what you please, get married to whom ever you want, do whatever drugs you want, just don't mess with anybody else or endanger anyone else. Open capitalism (or close to it) is what this country was built on and how it came to be the power it is today. Yes I want everything to be perfect for everyone but that is not the real world.

^ don’t shit on libertarianism until you know what it is and learn some history of our great nation.

[Tsiangkun]

There are a ton of people on welfare that are perfectly capable of working but choose not too….

Why is it that a corporation that pays a million dollars a month to lawyers who find loopholes in tax laws are brilliant, while a citizen who finds a way to live free is scum. At the heart of this is the problem with america. Cheat the system as a business and profit on the masses GOOD, cheat the system and profit on the masses as an individual BAD.

[FlexThis]

Saving the company money keeps prices low (saves the consumer money). Cheating the government as an indivdual makes taxes on the individual high (raises taxes on the consumer).

[wolfpac444]

What do you think cheating the government as a company does?

[FlexThis]

It is not cheating to use a legal loophole. Key word LEGAL.

It is cheating to claim dependants you don't own, gain weight on purpose to claim disability, lie to your Dr. to get a note stating you have a disability, lie to the unemployment department that McDonald's won't hire your ass, live under your means yet use the welfare to buy a porche, and have 10 kids knowing full well you have them for the money.

It is sad, have any of you ever lived in a trailor park? Spent any time listening to the ignorant rants and claims made by the so called poor and down trodden?

I grew up in that crap. And it is crap. You know what a crack whore does with her food stamps, she sells them to a mother of 4 to buy crack. This is cheating the gov. and it happens all the time.

I am in no way excusing Enron for ILLEGAL practices. But it is a fact that the the main reasons a company decides to become incoporatied is to take advantage of the laws LEGALLY.

Did you know that if you own a coporation you can write off your car, your gas, and travel expenses, and are not liable personally if you get sued? And it has been this way since Columbus left to discover a different trade route to India. The good ole government of the day set it up that way so it Columbus died during the voyage they could wipe their hands clean of the whole thing, claim a loss, and stay in business.

I did not make these laws. But they are there, and the longer people keeping bashing them instead of using them or changing them, the longer others will take the advantage you passed up and then pass you by. It is important to know what is really going on, before you decide it is all the Rich dummies fault. It might be your own fault for being ignorant as to what is and is not LEGAL.

Sorry, I just find myself having to defend my political views a lot on this forum. I'm starting to see a pattern among freestylers who just happen to chime in on this forum. It's something like 100 - 4 .

[Tsiangkun]

The intent of the law is clear. To run around the intent of the law for a corporation is considered "brilliant", so why is it different when an individual runs around the intent of the social programs to get a free ride ?


This is at the heart of the problems with american capitalism. Flex has already said, it's a legal loophole, so it's ok. Good for them, they are the greatest thing since a toothless cocksucker, but god damned the individual that did the same thing.

Why do we look at corporate tax evaders as people to emulate, but the people who got a free ride from the system are scumbags ?

Is it because you can see the individual, but the corporation is hidden behind smoke and mirrors isolated offshore on a desolate island only housing millionaires and slave laborers ?

[FlexThis]

Cameron,

I sited specifics, while you continue to bash. And I never called anything corporate BRILLIANT. Simple legal. The loopholes I refer to, are not loopholes at all, but rather the law of the land.

Blaim your lawyer or congressman for not closing the hole, meanwhile I'll call the police on your crack whore. Both smoking crack and cocksucking is illegal (in most states). Your other alternative is to move, I doubt you find the freedoms you have right now in another nation, well maybe Autrailia, right Jeremy?

[Tsiangkun]

It is not cheating to use a legal loophole.

1) Loophole doesn't mean legal,
LOOPHOLE: an omission or ambiguity in the wording of a contract or law that provides a means of evading compliance.

The intent of the law is clear, and they are looking for ways to avoid compliance. Yet this country celebrates them because they found a way to be above the law. Why not celebrate welfare lifers as those who found a way around the system. Why do we have such a hatred of one, and a love for the other. I"m not bashing, I just can't figure out the difference between the two, yet one is a cultural icon, and the other a poster child for why we don't have better social programs.

[bigdirtyfoot]

I think the clarification lies here:

Something that is legal is not always moral.
Something that is illegal is not always immoral.

Who makes the laws in this country? I'll just throw that question out there, because it is an important part of this discussion.

[FlexThis]

RETRACTION: Strike the word loophole and replace with LAW.

I didn't realize the term would be used so literally.

And I would agree with you Cameron that even a Corporation should not use an immoral LOOPHOLE. I run across that quite frequently here at my place of employment.

Example:
A girl who is perfect for a position is turned down by the President of my company because she has Purple Hair. My boss is stuck with the task of telling her why she will not be hired. So she tells her she is over qualified, which is a crook of shit. But under the law it keeps the company out of a discrimination lawsuit.

Do I think it's fair? Hell no! Do I feel like blowing the whistle? You bet! Do I? NO. And why is that Cameron? Because I have an over priced house, a family, a new truck, and kids to feed that's why. Do I wish it were different? Absolutely. Would it make a difference if John Kerry were currently president? Absolutely not!

I don't make waves, because like the purple haired girl, I too would be swept under the rug. I am seeking other employment, but I cannot simply walk out the door, otherwise I, who needs no public assistance to survive, would now have to rely on you Cameron the taxpayer for support until such time as I could find employment. And I, unlike Cameron, do not work for the government.

I am smarter than that, and I would hope that you would be too. I do not applaud corporations for using technicalities to further business. I applaud men who use corporations to better themselves, create jobs, and make the world better for others.

I believe we are on the same page, just reading it all at differing levels.

Crack Whore for President

[420FootBager]

hell ya Damon.

To put it plain and simple I don't really care as much about the cheating companies as the millions of people on welfare that MY tax dollars payfore. Then those same people in my nieghboorhood treat me like crap and curse at me while buying food and what not on MY tax dollars.

Yes I relize companys manipulating the law has a profond impact on things but it does not affect me as an individual as much as the crack head with 8 children thats waiting till night fall to break into my goddamn apartment.

[FlexThis]

John John claims to be conservative yet Kerry is ranked #1 while Edwards is ranked #4 as the most liberal democrats in the senate.

Just throwing out recycled news .

[MegaFighter_X]

John John claims to be conservative yet Kerry is ranked #1 while Edwards is ranked #4 as the most liberal democrats in the senate.

Isn't Kucinich a Senator? If so, the above claim is crap. If not, then you can pretty much ignore what I said right there.

But if Kerry is liberal, I'd really hate to see a conservitive. Wait.. we got that already. Regardless, I think the only reason Kerry is being considered "liberal" is because he's running for President. We all know he is, by far, not liberal. It is only name-calling. But if he is liberal, I'll support him 100%. I'm tired of the moron we have in office.

[HighDemonslayer]

Only a schmuck pays what he can legally avoid, Although......

I seem to think of the name Marc Rich, he was pardoned by Bill Clinton for being the biggest tax cheater of all time.

The Gov't lost hundreds of millions of $$$$$ that he dodged out with. He didn't want to pay his fair share.


He took food out of the mouths of hungry children.

He took medicine away from the elderly.

He dumped poison in our water and polluted our air.

But hey, if you got a sexy wife who'll might give me a blowjob, then I can forgive you, Bill Clinton-style.



Dodging taxes is great thing. If you can do it smart and not get caught, I applaud you.


The IRS has very few agents compared to other agencies.

They may have sweet computers that can spy on every detail of your financial life, but they still rely on your fear to do their job.

Taxes is really the Gov't sticking a gun in your face and saying "Fuck you, pay me!"

The money will be wasted on illegal aliens, or on ungrateful, undeserving foreigners anyway.

Fuck them, keep your money.


-n

[sPinko-Mania]

Taxes is really the Gov't sticking a gun in your face and saying "Fuck you, pay me!"

No but seriously, go read up on some social contract theory
Taxes are recognising that that my money is not exclusively the product of my labour, and nothing else. I am aware that the acquisition and retention of 'my' money is dependent on society in innumerable ways such as the basic frameworks of employment, education exchange and property security, that make it possible for me to keep 'my' money in the first place. To say that our efforts within the societal framework have enabled us to get out hands on some cash money and then say that society has no right to a cent of it, and the government is sticking a gun in our face and saying 'fuck you pay me!' is laughable. Especially when you have the right to go elsewhere if you don't like it.

The money will be wasted on illegal aliens, or on ungrateful, undeserving foreigners anyway.

Do I sense some xenophobia?

[FlexThis]

I do not view illegals as unproductive leeches on society as many stereotype them to be.

In fact they are the opposite. They want to succeed, they want to build strong family values, they want to belong. They work harder, set goals, and suceed where Poor White Trash throws in the towel and blaims the govt. for the illegals taking their jobs.

I did not feel this way until I read an article in the news recently about illegal parents complaining that their children were being given spanish language tests, and being spoken to in Spanish in schools. Although they themselves do not speak much English, this is not what they want for their children. They came here to make it better for their families. Speaking Spanish in an English country is inhibative to their learning and places them at a disadvantage.

I found this to be fascinating and exciting to learn that these people labeled leeches are really more American than the generations of rednecks mooching in the trailer parks.

About taxes, taxes are a necessity in this country and we often take for granted the roads we drive on, the FREE education we received, even the bus rides to and from school. In CA where I live, buses now cost annual fees. WTF . Obviously this isn't the case nationwide, but something to think about when bashing taxation completely.