What!? More Worlds Footage? (Semi Finals Routines)

[max]

yeah I also thought Yacine's routine was amazing. Maybe it was easier doing gimmicky stuff than linking a bunch of triple dexes, but it was so well timed to the music it just had a great feel to it. The next day I heard a few people whistling this tune, it had a nice sound, stuck in my head, was wondering what it was, turns out it was Yacine's routine music.

[Juana]

I know this will sound bad, but I don't really care today. I beat Carol last year even though the placements don't show. with the old judging system (slower, yet more thorough) I would have gotten 1st without a doubt. ANd I would say about 99.5% of the people that emailed me having seen all of the top women routines last year couldn't believe i wasn't given 1st. (and i got a shit ton of email about this which made the coping process a lot longer )

if you watch (and they're still around online)...I beat isa and carol--- the judging just sucked for women's finals pool (some inexperienced, some biased). I had lowest drops (3), carol(6!), isa (8!!)...I beat everyone (including carol) in adds, difficulty ratio and execution. I was "smooth"...not choppy...just go look and compare. judging always gets f-ed at worlds. I also beat everyone in 1st round shred 30(by a lot!) last year...I just was so pissed about 2-min routine judging results that I was uncentered for final shred30 and couldn't get a good run going leaving me with an upsetting 3rd to also cope with -- oh well -- happens to us all. I beat her at our shred 30 in seattle last fall and felt semi redeemed. i watched the shred 30's for this year (including euros) and am positive I could kill those scores right now. so could caro...she just had a fluke.

I just don't think that what you say is true Jan (and this is in the argument of *footbag* and not against you...*you*, I'm cool with) You say that Carol is not beatable now until some of the up and coming talent gets more polished...it's already happening and the reason her routine (which I haven't even seen yet) is so good is because she has felt the pressure to push her game for the first time in several years...otherwise there are many on her tail that are competitive. it's a good thing because it has inspired her to give her game another push and she's awesome enough to step up her game again to another level. I have nothing but respect for Carol and think she is worthy of 1st this year, but please...not beatable...and saying that none of us are "smooth" enough right now...I'm kind of offended that you don't see my game for what it's worth. well, to me at least

okay, all that said, I'm not a good performer because i get too nervous on stage...i take results really personally and am extremely hard on myself when i do poorly to the point of sometimes never wanting to play freestyle again. you see...I, like a lot of freestylers, am the hardest judge of all on myself. I don't need other judges making me feel even worse about my game -- i do that enough already. I hear stories about Nate getting ganked, some shadey judging situations that I wont mention publicly here this year at worlds...and even in some of the pools i judged in last year at worlds. It's enough to make me never compete again and a large reason why World's didn't really sound that fun to attend this year. but unfortunately, I usually feel obligated to compete as a woman in the sport because otherwise there's not enough of us for a women's bracket and we virtually disappear eventually.

anyway, I'm kind of offended that you say i'm not "smooth" -- I would comsider myself smooth...so i'm curious how you mean... do you mean that I don't put extra non-technical, non-footbag, girly "trying to look pretty in my tight shorts" fluff in my routines? yeah, i don't do that...you will never see me do that...i don't EVER want to see womens freestyle go there and neither does Carol. why do guys have this double standard for what they judge highly in men's routines versus what they judge highly for in women's routines? I'm really sick of it!!!! (that last sentence should be ALL CAPPED) men are judged higher for technical difficulty (without non-footbag fluff) and women get judged down for it...iu mean come on...placing me first last year and then taking away enough artistic merit points from me to drop me down 2 places to a routine with 8 drops?!!! either there's a double standard going on, or there's a hell of a lot of biased (bad) judges out there.

My conclusion is that judging will never be fair because it never seems to be...so if you get ganked ever...just consider yourself not alone. last year was bad though and from what i hear...this year was no different. anyway, there are a lot of issues brought up in this that each have a LARGE vast tangent for me to go off on, so I'm not going to unless someone wants to address one of them specifically.

wow...I guess I'm putting this all right here in this one thread...I also wanted to say to a comment I read somewhere by Max about how few women were at worlds. "EXACTLY!!!" that's why shreditas.com
I think European's is the World Championships for women. maybe us US/Canadian girls will start spending our money to go to EUros rather than worlds. not enough women serious enough about footbag to spend thousands of dollars to fly to worlds other than me, carol, caro, sunny, patris and maybe a couple of others i forgot.

damn, i just dug myself a big fat hole... let me have it!

P.S. Huge props and congrats to Carol, Verena (glad she could make it to represent!) and Sunny. I wish Caro had been on...I thought this would be her year! We all know Caro is one of the best...we don't need results to see that...heard she busted barroque twice last week...once from out of a ripwalk!!!

[shreddaily]

judging always gets f-ed at worlds.
My conclusion is that judging will never be fair because it never seems to be...so if you get ganked ever...just consider yourself not alone.

YUP. But the way I see it: We performed to the best of our ability and those who saw the performance know what we acomplished. props from e-mails and fellow shredders are alot more important than props from judges that hardly even know us.
We'll have our day jane, till then lets do what we love to do and SHRED!

[Juana]

True that!

Hey Nate...I was just in Eugene yesterday...thought about shredding with you, but had to keep on truckin' up to Oly. Let's kick soon! meet in Portland?

[FlexThis]

[max]

I'll start a new thread for this (Judging at Worlds).

[atze]

Funny that the same old discussion about judging occurs every year.
Fact is that almost every year there is a lack of "qualified" judges because not enough people actually volunteer for the job. So frankly anyone who is dissatisfied with the results and is refusing to compete because of f-ed judging is welcome to take a seat at the judging table him or herself.
Fact is judging is really, really hard! Especially since the level of play is getting higher and higher.
And of course judges are biased, but thats only natural. Try sitting at the judging table and evaluating 8 routines. Of course your recollection of the first couple of routines in the pool are not as good as the last three. That's why seeding is so important. It's always best to be one of the last players to perform. And if there's a big name in the pool you automatically judge him or her differently. You start thinking "ok, he/she's a big shot...did he/she perform up to my expectations...no he/she didn't (they seldom do), but does that make her performance worse than it actually was? (antibias comes into play)...will people shout at me afterwards because I downgraded this player?...etc., etc., etc.
Usually in the end the big names get a little bonus, kind of a "benefit of the doubt". But they get this BECAUSE they've earned the big name in previous competitions.

And I guess that's just the way it is in all performing sports. If you want to go to the top you have to make a name of yourself first.

I was actually surprised Vasek won the worlds title the first year he competed. But I think he profited in this case from all the hype about Ryan not winning the title in 99. So actually Ryan lost in both cases. In 99 because Scott was the big name and in 01 because judges didn't want to make the "mistake" again of letting the big name influence their judging.

So in this sense, this year was probably Janes easiest shot at the title, because of all the commotion last year. Judges would have been very carefull not to cause a "scandal" like that again and would probably have (UNCONCIOUSLY!!!) been biased in her favor. (That is not to say that Jane will not win the title next year, just that next year the issues of worlds02 will not be as present in peoples minds).

And Nate will also reap the fruits of his solid performance at this years worlds in the future tournaments he will compete in.

In the end, the best will always rise to the top, no matter what. Sometimes you just have to work on your reputation. And the only way to build your reputation is to compete in as many tournaments as possible and persuade people that you are really, really good.

Or just go to the occasional tournament, have fun, compete for the heck of it and just enjoy yourself and be happy if your performance sparks a reaction in your fellow competitors and the crowd.

And if everybody knew what judges wanted to see in a routine (so an objective judging system), there would be even less diversity in routines as there is today and we could just about go and burry a (crowd entertaining) footbag in some nameless grave somewhere.

Ja, ja, and btw. I moved the women issue to the "womens at worlds" thread.

Out.

[atze]

Oh and:

How the hell are we supppose to train, practice, work out a routine, if the criteria for what scores high marks is subjective to the people sitting in the judges box?

first of all, please yourself with the routine you're practicing.
second of all, make a routine that is technically advanced put it in a setting that entertains an audience. I think it's really that simple: technically skill and entertainment. two points that make a good routine. Technical ability is more or less objective and has been judged so for as long as I can remember. Entertainment will always be a subjective issue, but judges will never be able to ignore if you made the audience laugh, cry, cheer, stomp their feet, etc.

[Juana]

Thanks for the good response Jan. You are much more diplomatic than I am. I'll have to go check out the other threads that this has been moved to. BTW, how come no Isa @ Euros this year? I know Nadine is taking a hiatus, but Isa has still been playing, right? Is she not competing anymore either?

[ebo]

From what I've heard, Sam (Hufschmid) and Isa stayed in Portugal
for a while.

[FlexThis]

[King Monkey]

wow all those routines were so excellent! Carols routine was definitely very good
i felt so bad for Johnny at the end... he went 1.05 without dropping but the drops killed it at the end... other than that i thought his routine was really cool and pretty well coreographed.. the timing on the Sumo was cool, and his spinning strings
Penske is looking awesome of course, though im not sure i rated his choice of music, it didnt seem to leave many options for artistic stuff, like pauses in the music or changes of beat... but the second routine esp at the start, that was sick

Yacine was very impressive... i think it worked ok having the gimicky 2 adds and stuff in their cos the timing was so good, and he had sections of raw shred and guiltlesssness in there that balanced it out... awesome timing

[atze]

I agree with you Jan. Fly me out there and I'll judge the comp.

See, judges are expected today to "fly out there" on their own expenses and then judge...so they actually pay to get the shit talked out of them on internet forums afterwards. That's footbag for you.

[Juana]

MMmmmmm footbag...love it, hate it.

[NotHisRealName]

there's a bit of a shit storm over here in Aust about Rugby League Referees at present.
That's the problem... a few bad calls, or some 'un-popular' calls, and the officials are incompitant!

I say shut up about it. You're either part of the problem or part of the solution.

Which are you?

[Colin]

You're either part of the problem or part of the solution.

Isn't that the classical argument to encourage people to speak up about problems instead of ignoring them?

[NotHisRealName]

It's more of an invitation saying... "If you've got a better idea, a solution, then do something about it rather than just sitting on your arse in front of the computer, bitching about it".

Actions speak louder than words.

[Spadrick]

Kiser, that is very true and well spoken, and dont let anyone tell you any different.

There is also another saying; "The squeaky wheel gets the grease".

I believe that as long as you have fun during your routine and you are pleased with what you have done, then you have already won.

I understand that there may have been a judging problem at this and at previous world events, but footbag (IMHO) isn't and never was about competition first and formost. It is about doing something you enjoy, and if you can't enjoy it without having a medal around your neck, then why the hell are you doing it?

I thought worlds was awesome. I thought everyone that went up and competed was great, and props to everyone that is keeping the spirit of footbag alive.

~ Dex

[King Monkey]

Gareth, isnt one purpose of the forum to discuss issues that are important to our sport? obviously almost no-one here can do anything about it, but there are ppl on this forum who were stung by the judging at Worlds and i think its a perfectly valid topic for discussion... with any luck someone who HAS the power to change stuff will read the discussions, see that there is an issue, and do something about it

if we dont discuss it nothing will happen... but if we do discuss it something might

EDIT: just wanted to correct my earlier post where i said johnny didnt drop in the first 1.05... he did, once. my bad

[Spadrick]

Hence "The Squeaky Wheel Gets the Grease".