What happened to Ricky Moran making bap

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 04 Aug 2004 17:29

Well, if he's in the military....

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 04 Aug 2004 17:32

I understood what Maraxus was doing. I'm sure he mentioned it somewhere else. It's his choice and he's welcome to make that choice.

I'm sorry that this has become a debate. However it appears that it is one that is necessary for the better running of this forum.

I was not offended by the usage of homosexual terms as negative or insulting words and it's not about what is politically correct and what isn't.

Rather this is about tolerating people who are different and allowing them to be different. As I said earlier - when you use homosexual terms to describe something negative or something you don't like you are creating a link between homosexuality and negativity. It doesn't matter if you mean to do this or not - it's still happening. There is a very strong view in society that it is bad to be gay and the way homosexual words are used helps to keep this view alive. So using the words in negative context shows that you either are happy to have society view gay people in a negative light or you don't understand what the effect of your language is.

This is the case with using any term for a group of people as a negative word - calling someone a "Jew" or "Retard" etc. - All negative discrimination is frowned upon by the moderating staff - not just in reference to homophobia - but also racism, sexism and other forms.

As someone who grew up having to deal with a large amount of racism, I'm confident that most people who make discriminatory remarks do so because they are ignorant. Being ignorant does not mean you are stupid and I hope people take this opportunity to understand why that kind of language is unacceptable. Making homophobic remarks does not mean you are homophobic - but the words have the same effect as if you were.

I know it's hard for people who have grown up without facing real discrimination to understand - so all I ask is that you accept the fact that using homophobic language (or any other kind of discriminatory language) is offensive to some people - and respect their wishes for that language not be used. If you do not respect other people, it is likely that the moderation staff will not respect you...

HooD · Post by **HooD** » 04 Aug 2004 19:28

Sooo... how about ricky's spinning skills...pretty neat huh ?? Actually I met Ricky at worlds, even though he didn't kick, he still had a good time and was one of the coolest freestylers there. Oh, drop the hijacked topic debate and start talking about something worthwhile. *waves fake moderator stick around*

The Actual Sized E · Post by **The Actual Sized E** » 04 Aug 2004 21:11

FlexThis wrote:But I use the term gay to describe something ODD or out of place as well. It has nothing to do with the term homosexual, wasn't used in that context and shouldn't be viewed as such. Anyone offended by a one word term like Gay, ought not be so offended unless it was a personal attack.

Definitely one of the most ridiculous things i've read recently. Calling it gay has entirely everything to do with the term homosexual, including when you say it to describe something as odd or out of place, whether you realize it or not. Like Jeremy said, Maraxus said Ricky's not making it into BAP was gay because it was an unfavorable outcome, and in our society gay=bad. I doubt you'd have defended him if he said "Damn, Ricky sure got niggered out of getting in bap." Why do you think that is? It's because slowly we are getting more accepting as people and now in most developed places (especially urban areas) discriminating against blacks is one of the most publically frowned on offences. It definitely wasn't like that in the not to distant past, but we are changing for the better. Gays on the other hand are still not acceptible to the majority of Americans, so bashing on them is stil a-ok and lots of people (yourself included) don't even realize that it's exactly the same as discriminating against blacks, or women, or poor people, etc. What bothers me so much about it though is not that you specifically equate gays with bad, i could really care less who you choose to hate on, what bothers me is that you and most people don't even consider it hating on something since it's still socially acceptable to hate gays. Someone brought up switching gay with jew or retard, it's no where near as common but it happens just the same. Recently the CIC has been kicking at a local highschool with a bunch of students who are getting really into freestyle, and when we started kicking there one of the most common ways to say someone fucked up a hack (or pulled a cheap move in 4-square) was to say "You're a fucking Jew" or "you fucking Jewed that up". Now I wasn't raised jewish, but I have one jewish parent and i can tell you that it was totally offensive and automatically seperates the circle into me and them. These kids had nothing specifically against Jews, they were just saying that someone fucked up, they could use any word: jew, gay, retard, it's all the same shit. But the end result is they were equating my mother with fucking up and that's bullshit. You might not have any specific agenda against gays, but saying that ricky not making bap is gay is completely ignorant and disrepectful. I feel like a hypocrite saying this because every once in a while i still catch myself calling shitty things gay, it's real easy to do and it won't change when no one calls you on it. That's why Jeremy has to say what he did, and the same goes for me. It's obvious people like you and Maraxus haven't expirienced much discrimination otherwise you wouldn't say things like:

FlexThis wrote:If you want to call me a white bread chicken shit moron, that's ok by me.

Whites are the ethnic majority here in america, chicken shit morons are pretty high up there too. If you were ever in the minority you'd understand the difference. Anyway, I'm too tired right now to finish this, so hopefully you can understand some of what I'm saying.

Maraxus · Post by **Maraxus** » 04 Aug 2004 23:05

It's obvious people like you and Maraxus haven't expirienced much discrimination otherwise you wouldn't say things like:

Are you kidding! I'm in the military! All we do is give each other shit. I get called some pretty clever names and I learn some god damn good insults while I'm at it. The point is that I couldn't give a fuck less about derogatory names reflecting culture, descent, ethnic background, marital status, skivvy size, or skin color of another person. Half of the USMC is Mexican, I go around calling them racial names still. I know a gay cheerleader back in the states, we get along pretty well, I still call him a faggot.

I doubt you'd have defended him if he said "Damn, Ricky sure got niggered out of getting in bap."

Oh that's priceless, I'll use it next time.

Maraxus · Post by **Maraxus** » 04 Aug 2004 23:07

HooD wrote:Sooo... how about ricky's spinning skills...pretty neat huh ?? Actually I met Ricky at worlds, even though he didn't kick, he still had a good time and was one of the coolest freestylers there. Oh, drop the hijacked topic debate and start talking about something worthwhile. *waves fake moderator stick around*

Ricky is the new Lon. I wish I could spin half as well.

bigdirtyfoot · Post by **bigdirtyfoot** » 05 Aug 2004 04:26

Man this argument is getting so the.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 05 Aug 2004 07:23

- I changed my mind, I don't want to continue down this road, it ain't worth the letters on the screen. -

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 05 Aug 2004 07:54

You are being called ignorant because you are still trying to claim that the word "gay" when used in a negative context has nothing to do with homosexuality.

It is no surprise that you are offended by the word "fuck" more than the word "gay" - since as far as I know you are happibly married in a hetrosexual relationship.

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I've bolded the important part.

Now the moderating staff are fairly lax with most of that - you can flame me as much as you like and it's unlikely that there will be any action taken. However I take exception to discriminatory langauge - especially when it is racist, sexiest, homophobic or otherwise pandering to an untolerant sterotype.

Now both myself and Eric Reile have made some efforts at educating you as to why the usage of words such as "gay" are not going to be tolerated. If you use that word a lot in general speech then I'm sorry for you - however it's not language that we want to be used on this forum. We want to create a community that tolerates people regardless of sexuality, gender, race, mental abilities, religion and weight. I believe that the usage of the word "gay" works against achieving that goal.

Now I know you disagree with my beliefs so you have a very easy choice. You can use the word and expect me to continually either post afterwards asking you stop - eventually losing patients and censoring your posts and if things continue take further action. Or you can not use the word - if only to save us all a lot of hassle.

I hate censorship and I hate censoring things. I usually try my best not to censor things - even when common sense tells me I should. This thread is a good example of this. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing or if I should just lock it - there certainly is much that can be said about the original topic. I'm sure other people would like to see this topic locked. However I think this is an important discussion that needs to be had or else the same issue will come up again.

I used to think that all censorship was wrong and it was better to explain to people why their langauge is offensive and that if they understood there would be no problems. I have a number of homosexual friends and I can assure you that they find the language offensive. Probably not all gay people do - but lots do. So I'm now beginning to learn that some people's views are set and since you cannot educate them - censoring seems to be the only choice.

I'm sorry that you don't like the policy but you'll have to deal with it yourself.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 05 Aug 2004 08:34

Simply to reply to your comments, because frankly I feel you are missing the point entirely.

I never used the word Gay. So censoring me, doesn't solve the problem, nor threatening me with ACTION.

So please

your propaganda at the intended party.

Secondly, simply by choosing to say things like "We tolerate gays", but not "Gay bashing", you are being intolerant to "those who don't like gays", "those who use the term gay in a different context", and "to the English language in general".

Please hear me now, I am playing devils advocate in this matter because I like you feel it is important to communicate rather than hate, ban or censor.

I am not a Gay Hater, nor an intolerant asshole. Which is why I am playing devil's advocate on this Political Correctness Issue. And the rules and regulation set forth by this forum, can be interpreted as a form of political correctness gone amuck as I have said earlier. That said I will continue my own politcal rant below:

As a human, I have experienced many injustices on both sides of the argument. A gay man beaten in a public bathroom, and a straight guy knocked out for not accepting a gay advance.

Tolerance works both ways. The KKK (not that I accept them at all) have beliefs that are unheld by the constitution of the United States of America. Being an American citizen it is my duty to fight for, protect, and tolerate the KKK even though IMO they are nothing more than a bunch of bullies looking to spread hate (yes I said hate) among those who choose to follow them.

Now while I understand that this is a multi-national forum, it doesn't dispute the fact that I am an American citizen. Maraxus is fighting for my country and deserves my full respect. Not Yours!!! I will defend his right to use the word "gay" as he intended, without question. His speech is protected under the constitution of the United States of America.

His first use of the word "Gay" was taken at face value rather than it's intended slang purpose. This is a sensitivity issue not a bashing one.

His second use of the word fag, may or may not have been an attack. This one though is truelly a slang term, and noone should think otherwise. In Europe a fag is a cigarette. He is currently in the Middle east, which is connected by land to Europe, so his use of the word "fag" could have been interpreted that way to mean cigarette. (This is a failed attempt at a Lawyers rant)

I don't however believe this was his intent, yet as an American I see nothing wrong with his choice of words. But as the rules of this forum state that use of such wording is forbidden, I must also abide by these rules, or out I go. I have no problems following the policies of this forum. It does not say however, that I can not debate the existance or hidden meanings behind such policies. Which is why we are debating rather than calling each other names.

Once again, I have not used the word "Gay" or "Fag" other than as words for debate, there is no hate, no bad and no ill will generated by my use of the word. It is Maraxus who should be under the microscope at this time.

I feel though, that you are speaking on deaf ears to Maraxus. He doesn't share your world view of the term gay. You are being intolerant of his wishes by imposing policy on him. He is a grown man with a huge gun in his hands fighting the ills of society in Iraq. He could be shot dead tomorrow (heaven forbid). I don't even like thinking about such an occurance, but it is real and it is possible. So as a human, I feel his pain and grant him immunity from the standards of a multi-national forum such as this. His emotions are real, he has nothing to gain by using offensive language, but God only knows if Australia chooses to uphold his rights. You certainly aren't bound to them, you don't live in America. So I can see your stance.

But Maraxus does live in America, and tolerance is not as common place as many of you would like to believe. Watch an episode of Trading Spouses and tell me that whites get along with whites. Yeah right. You guys are all living in a dream land of peace and harmony that simply doesn't exist.

Personally as a 29 year old white male living in America, I am finding it harder and harder to tolerate all the New and Unusaul things that are poping up in society. That said, I believe this will be my last post at modified. I am sick of the wanna be majority imposing their will as law and not looking inside themselves to question why they are following such a law.

~peace out, have fun in footbag~Go Bush 2004!

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 05 Aug 2004 09:14

Education >> Censorhsip.

this thread is blonde.

ShredPirate · Post by **ShredPirate** » 05 Aug 2004 13:46

gay = happy
fag = cigarette

ShredStylez · Post by **ShredStylez** » 05 Aug 2004 20:10

ShredPirate wrote:gay = happy

exactly my friend

Socialism offers a false hope for peace and harmony Flex, Jeremy has called himself a red.

Lets just call things that are distasteful liberal from now on. That should get some rises out of people.

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 05 Aug 2004 20:23

Senor Grommet · Post by **Senor Grommet** » 05 Aug 2004 21:05

Flex, Maraxus, and Mark Shred Stylez,
You guys have a lot to learn . . .
It really doesnt matter how you meant to say it, or with what intentions you meant to say it, or whether you are smart enough to understand it or not, the negative connotation of the word "gay" is what is being promoted when you use the word "gay" as the primary insult in a putdown.

Imagine this: US troops overseas do horrid things to iraqi prisoners so many americans begin to distrust the troops and their doings. Then all of the sudden, a stupid young american having nothing to do with the US troops decides to use "marine" as an insult. After watching his favorite baseball team lose, this young man says, "Aw, man, that was fucking marine!." And then he says it to you Maraxus, unknowing that you are A marine, "Aw man, I can'y believe my team lost to those bitches! That was fucking marine!"

Do you understand yet?

LameR · Post by **LameR** » 05 Aug 2004 21:11

bigdirtyfoot wrote:Man this argument is getting so the.

Agreed.

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 05 Aug 2004 21:12

It's certainly looking quite thin.

Maraxus · Post by **Maraxus** » 05 Aug 2004 21:52

Senor Grommet wrote: Do you understand yet?

no

bigdirtyfoot · Post by **bigdirtyfoot** » 06 Aug 2004 04:04

Well at least I'm glad someone enjoyed my comment.

ShredStylez · Post by **ShredStylez** » 06 Aug 2004 05:55

All these examples are being thrown out there but dont quite hit the mark. All of these scenerios are using things that dont have a moral dillemma or are topics of debate. There are many people that dont agree with homosexuality being right (and i know i am one of the few on this forum and i'm not saying that Flex or Maraxus hold my same views), but by u forcing your views on me that being homosexual is natural ur offending me in the same way im offending you. Im not even talking about just using the term gay anymore. Everyone complains about bush forcing his views but the left does the same thing in that they make everyone believe that they were born that way or even that God created them that way which is upsurd when the bible clearly is against it.

Tear me up.