Genesis

Senor Grommet · Post by **Senor Grommet** » 13 Sep 2004 21:09

Does Genesis get the "x-dex"?
Is genesis a 6 or a 7?
thanks.

sPinko-Mania · Post by **sPinko-Mania** » 13 Sep 2004 21:39

I think 7. All this comes down to whether or not the second dex in the barraging set is 'full' or not. Stepping definitely isn't full, and pdx whirl definitely is.

I think it's a full dex so 7 with x-dex 6 without.

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 13 Sep 2004 21:49

If nemesis doesn't get xdex then why would genesis? Toe barrage gets xdex, right? But clipper set barrage doesn't. I don't follow xdex but this is what I understand.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 13 Sep 2004 21:54

Genesis is a 6-add. It does not get xdex: there are two partial dexes and one full dex.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 13 Sep 2004 22:40

If Fury is a 6, then genesis is a 7.

sPinko-Mania · Post by **sPinko-Mania** » 14 Sep 2004 04:20

Dear add system

I wish you a quick but painful death

Yours sincerely,

Spink

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 14 Sep 2004 05:12

I would only give fury 5 adds - I don't think it should get an x dex.

I think I've gone into this whole thing before but I'll do it all again!

- the mirage at the end of fury is a full dex. However the barraging set is not - it is either half a dex plus a full dex (meaning fury would get an x dex) or it is a total of one a half dexes for 2 dexes adds - making each dex more than a half dex but less than a full dex (lets say 3/4 of a dex) - thus meaning that the move shouldn't get an x dex.

X dex is called that because you have to do an extra dex that isn't accounted for in the add system - for example atomsmasher has an extra dex than tap.

If a furious set counts as a full dex than surely whirr would also recieve an x dex. There is no doubt that whirr has two full dexes I think. Certainly Whirr has more of a dex than barrage.

If whirr has enough "dexes" to recieve an x dex than surely the same move in reverse (reverse whirr if you like) has the equal amount of "dexes" and should get an x dex.

And what is a "dex"? - a dex is the foot going around the bag. The amount of dex refers to how much the leg has to go around the bag - thus you have to go around the bag more with an atomsmasher than you do with a tap.

If this is all true and we have decided that reverse whirr gets a x dex. Surely if you do the exact same move to a reverse whirr, but with hippy dexes instead of leggy dexes - a hippy reverse whirr it requires your feet to go around the bag just as much - first the bag goes infront of the dexing leg, then behind, then infront again and finally behind to be stalled. That sounds like 2 full dexes to me. - However the move I'm describing is down double down and most people would say that it doesn't get an x dex.

One of the reasons why is because if you add an extra dex and make the move blurrier it would be the same add value - since blurrier clearly does not have 2 full dexs. Now while I agree that down double down does in some ways have more of a dex than blurrier - I think it would be stupid and illogical if blurrier and the exact same move but without the first component had the same add value - the whole philosophy behind the add system is that each component of a move gets a point - the more components the more points. I think it's pretty clear that blurrier has more components to it to down double down.

I hope you could all follow that and it made sense.

Of course if you physically do split up the dexes of a move and hit stepping ss blur instead of fury then it should get an x dex - because the second and third dexes are full - but we need to take into account the way the dexes are performed - perhaps whirr should get an x dex - but double of down certainly shouldn't - and they both contain the same amount of "dex" - if you decide to mentally split up the dexes on a move like a barraging set even though they are performed in one action just so the move gets more adds you aren't taking into account the way the dexes are performed at all - you are simply saying the amount the bag goes around the legs should decide if it gets an x dex or not - and as you've seen - the same logic means that blurrier and down double down are both 5 add moves.

pillar · Post by **pillar** » 14 Sep 2004 05:28

I don't follow X-dex and no one that I know of does in Finland. So in my opinion genesis is 6 adds. It's an awesome trick.

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 14 Sep 2004 06:25

Genesis is 7ADD and it gets X-dex.
Furry is 6ADD and it gets X-dex...

habitat · Post by **habitat** » 14 Sep 2004 08:54

I think x-dex is just another excuse to say how much bigger a move you hit is. The move is what it is, but who am I to say anything, I suck

ville · Post by **ville** » 14 Sep 2004 09:01

I don't remember the full detailed description of x-dex, but this is based on how I learned it from the original posts by Eric Wulff back in the days of email lists, tried searching for the original post, but couldn't find it.

In barraging the first dex is full and the second dex is half a dex (a clipper mirage basically) so no barraging move with only one dex after the set can get x dex. Paradon has one full dex and the second one is a butterfly, so nemesis doesn't get it. In Down double down the first dex is full and the second dex is only a half a dex (a butterfly), no xdex.

Shredster · Post by **Shredster** » 14 Sep 2004 09:16

Barrage set from clipper is first a half dex, then a whole dex. The Pdx whirl is xdex. So therefore, its a 7.

BUT! I don't really believe that double downs/barrages should get xdex because it just doesn't feel xdexy. Xdexy is an atom smasher. Not to say genesis isn't superhard, but the barrage set just doesn't seem like an xdex. Therefore, genesis only has one xdex, which does not increase its add count to 7.

ville · Post by **ville** » 14 Sep 2004 09:32

The first dex is not half because you can't just decide in the middle of a move that you stop the first dex here and then continue to do a full dex (only applies to dexes done with the same foot). The amount of dex accumulates as you do the move. The first dex has to be the full dex.

*edit*

Of course if you plant your leg in between dexes then you can decide which dex is full and which one is not..

ted · Post by **ted** » 14 Sep 2004 12:37

genesis is blah blah blah

wicked · Post by **wicked** » 15 Sep 2004 04:55

genesis aint a x dex cuz its already paradox and jani walker dont get no x dex so genesis dont get it. it dont matta if the second dex is "full" or whatever cuz your still just basin it on weather the third dex was paradox or not. that loophole jacks up everything on this clipper based x nonsence.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » 15 Sep 2004 06:06

THIS IS SOME BULLLLLLLLLLLLLLSHIT: Why do guyz always wanna give tricks like this more adds[yes a sick trick], but you dont see them runnin to make quadruple around the world kick a five add. im sorry but symposium genesis would be an 8 add with x.. im sorry but that shit is not as hard as 7 tuplet around the world stall A seven DEX MOVE!@!. shoot, what about octa dex toekick?? IMO Shredderz should respect the difficulty of moves they dont even mess with before comin up with some cheap add hunting like this. Ide rather see cool ass original styles instead of some cookie cutter stuff this promotes. John schnieders stuff dont get anymore adds and you dont see him trying to make dragon adds higer and whatever.. hes just real and does hard stuff nobody else can touch cuz hes the outsider jedi dope freestyler everyone watches. Thats how he gets respect. Not by add hunting.

I got tons of love for wolfy but that half dex thing he came up with is some bullshit too

. A dex is a dex IMO and each move has all the respect in the world when it was created by its master, creator, owner and inventor blessed by god to be true in all wayz. Upon creation of a move all concepts and add elements are totally LEGIT if you ask me so you cant have half a dex or half a body or half an unusual cause then your just saying its THEEEEEEEEE. If i invented paradon, i wouldn't want that to be 1.5 dexes that shit is a 2!

reni · Post by **reni** » 15 Sep 2004 09:44

yep... and who said that adds are here to classify tricks by there difficulty degree? this is one of the big misunderstandings in the sport of footbag. i always thought that the add-system is a possibility to structure the tricks in their number of components.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 15 Sep 2004 09:54

I too hate when people use cheap ass tricks like your mama, or cookie cutter crap like genesis just to force props. Can we puleeeze get some originality around here so I can dish out some friggin respect.

</sarcasm>

Yeah, adds don't measure difficulty. It measures the number of components in a trick.

Shredster · Post by **Shredster** » 15 Sep 2004 11:04

I actually hate when people get all upset at others for asking kindly if a move gets an xdex or not.

Obviously we have no category for difficulty of moves, so we need to either make one up, or fix the add system so it works with difficulty. Honestly, i can't decide if toe barrage gets xdex or not. Its not like i'm asking for more props though.

abstract · Post by **abstract** » 15 Sep 2004 11:18

I try not to think of the add system as being indicative of difficulty, but rather of the complexity of the move. Just because a move has more components than another, it does not mean that those components are of a higher difficulty. But it does describe in accurate detail the complexity of movement involved with the given trick.

My understanding of XDEX is that there must be two full dexes, with a full DEX being one that breaks two planes ( above and beneath the bag ).

Jeremy, I agree with Whirr getting XDEX, but not Reverse Whirr. My reasoning is that with a Whirl DEX, the dexing leg completes a full revolution around the bag, tucking behind the bag before the catch ( two planes broken - the first as the leg passes over the bag, then again when it tucks underneath ). With a Reverse Whirl DEX, the leg is simply passing over the bag, a la Butterfly. Once the dexing leg has passed over the bag, the other foot is already clear for the catch. This is of course, assuming a clipper catch on both moves. A Reverse Whirling Toe Stall would get a full DEX. So Whirr would be two full dexes, and Reverse Whirr would get one and a half. I believe the way a DEX is performed ( crispy, downtime, uptime, etc ) does not affect it's ADD value in the end. Your leg will still be making the same distance around the bag. The primary difference is STYLE, and in the end, isn't that what it's all about?