This is really sad and I hear it isn't getting much news coverage in the US.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 652174.stm
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/09/ ... index.html
I can't find a link to the actual video but out here in the free world we were treated to it on the 6 o'clock news: There's the reporter infront of the abrahams tank which is disabled in the background. A dozen or so people, some kids, all unarmed, curiously looking over the wreck. Other small groups of people dance and cheer, there is no sound of gunfire. Then you hear the chopper, people start running, bang, dust, blood on the lense and screaming as the cameraman stumbles backwards. It was pretty damning.
It's sad and somewhat predictable. The yanks are going 'Nam again.
Not that you can blame the soldiers 100% though, it must be horrible being in a country you don't understand, fighting a war that's barely justifiable (if that), against enemy indistinguishable from the general populace who in a large part resent you anyway. The same thing happened to the Brits in Northern Ireland. I'm afraid that in the years to come we will see many more thousands of innocent civilians massacred by the US and a whole 'nother generation to hate the devil in the west and become "matyrs" and the circle perpetuates.
Makes me sick!
Haifa Street
Haifa Street
-Dale Jury
Hey thanks for that link frenzal. I saw the incident on tv as well but I was half asleep and not really listening. I must say that there can be no doubt that that article you've linked is biased in favour of the US - if any american's actually get to see what happened it was pretty clearly that many of the people - if not all - were innocent. I notice too that it's at the bottom of the page and that it barely mentions the counter claims from the incident, or even mentions that the whole thing was caught on film.
I'm sure it is easy for the people of the middle east to hate the US when the see that kind of footage - especially if the US military is going to continue to stand by it's decision and not to admit they were wrong to fire on innocent people.
How is that event any different than the Iraqis retaliating by attacking the US or its allies in someway? How can you say that s11 was evil but the deaths of over 10,000 civilians is worth the cause?
FUCK U.S. IMPERIALISM
To all american's - what are you doing about the murders being commited right now in your name - silence is support.
I'm sure it is easy for the people of the middle east to hate the US when the see that kind of footage - especially if the US military is going to continue to stand by it's decision and not to admit they were wrong to fire on innocent people.
How is that event any different than the Iraqis retaliating by attacking the US or its allies in someway? How can you say that s11 was evil but the deaths of over 10,000 civilians is worth the cause?
FUCK U.S. IMPERIALISM
To all american's - what are you doing about the murders being commited right now in your name - silence is support.
The bbc news story has a link to a report that includes the footage - its a realplayer streaming file though. They never work for me but maybe they do for you.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/video/40063 ... y12_vi.ram
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/video/40063 ... y12_vi.ram
-Dale Jury
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HighDemonslayer
- Egyptian Footgod
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: 17 Jun 2003 19:34
- Location: Arizona
Uh, I think Australia has troops in Iraq.
What are YOU doing about your troops doing things in your name?
Opening your mouth and complaining doesn't count as doing something.
If you really wanted to do something, you would sabotage your armies capability to deploy.
Complaining about your government's action's when you have the freedom to do so is no heroic, or risky thing.
-n
What are YOU doing about your troops doing things in your name?
Opening your mouth and complaining doesn't count as doing something.
If you really wanted to do something, you would sabotage your armies capability to deploy.
Complaining about your government's action's when you have the freedom to do so is no heroic, or risky thing.
-n
Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
-----------------------------------
-nathan
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-nathan
Good question.
I'm currently a member of two large anti war groups. I'm also write letters and emails to people with say in the matter a great deal. I try to support all anti war groups. I'm also heavily involved with the Australian's Greens who were one of only two parties in Australia to oppose the war (and neither major party did) and will be handing out how to vote cards for them on October 9 (our election). I try to do whatever I can to stop the murder that is occurring in my name. However I also accept that so far what I've been doing is clearly not enough since we still have troops in Iraq. I don't really know what else I can do though - I live in an electorate and a state that votes of the Labor party - a party that has promised to remove Australian troops by Christmas. I am a pacifist and I will not resort to any kind of force - including sabotage - do achieve my beliefs - I will not try to force people into following my beliefs - that is one of the many reasons why I'm opposed to the war.
However it's also important to note that in Iraq, the removal of Australian troops would not have any or very little effect on the outcome of the war or on the US - it is possible that the US and UK would feel more pressure with their shortening list of allies but if the leaders of the UK, Australia or the vast majority of the "Coalition of the willing" were worried about what the majority thought they would not have gone to war in the first place.
This is why I often write letters to the US ambassador and why I think it's more important to put pressure on American's than it is to put them on my leaders. The main problem with this is that I know a lot less American's than I know Australians and aren't really sure who I should be writing to or what I can do about it. However the many American's on this forum could perhaps be much more effective than I am in helping to create peace.
This topic is not about people getting slaughtered by Australian Troops, it's about people getting slaughtered by American Troops. They died in both our names true, but I thought it would have been an off topic comment to comment on my dislike of Australian politics. If you want to create a topic about Australia I will be sure to comment on our many problems - especially our racism, our imperialism, and our huge environmental problems.
I have said this before - I consider myself a citizen of the world before I am a citizen of Australia and hate nationalism. There are things I like about my country - such as having one of the highest life expectancies and literacy rates in the world. There are also things I hate about my nation. I could say positive and negative things about most nations in the world. However in many cases I see the negatives far out weighing the positives. Australia is supporting the murder of over 10,000 civilians in the Middle East, we are stealing oil and gas off one of the poorest nations in the world (East Timor) and we completely disregard the human rights of asylum seekers and refugees. Who cares how long we live or what good readers we are if we are responsible for such actions.
We are also a democracy which means that the decisions made by those that represent us are ultimately our decisions - so the murder and bloodshed occurring in Iraq is happening in my name! That makes me sick. It makes me ashamed to be associated with a country like Australia with such a low view of non white human life.
I'm currently a member of two large anti war groups. I'm also write letters and emails to people with say in the matter a great deal. I try to support all anti war groups. I'm also heavily involved with the Australian's Greens who were one of only two parties in Australia to oppose the war (and neither major party did) and will be handing out how to vote cards for them on October 9 (our election). I try to do whatever I can to stop the murder that is occurring in my name. However I also accept that so far what I've been doing is clearly not enough since we still have troops in Iraq. I don't really know what else I can do though - I live in an electorate and a state that votes of the Labor party - a party that has promised to remove Australian troops by Christmas. I am a pacifist and I will not resort to any kind of force - including sabotage - do achieve my beliefs - I will not try to force people into following my beliefs - that is one of the many reasons why I'm opposed to the war.
However it's also important to note that in Iraq, the removal of Australian troops would not have any or very little effect on the outcome of the war or on the US - it is possible that the US and UK would feel more pressure with their shortening list of allies but if the leaders of the UK, Australia or the vast majority of the "Coalition of the willing" were worried about what the majority thought they would not have gone to war in the first place.
This is why I often write letters to the US ambassador and why I think it's more important to put pressure on American's than it is to put them on my leaders. The main problem with this is that I know a lot less American's than I know Australians and aren't really sure who I should be writing to or what I can do about it. However the many American's on this forum could perhaps be much more effective than I am in helping to create peace.
This topic is not about people getting slaughtered by Australian Troops, it's about people getting slaughtered by American Troops. They died in both our names true, but I thought it would have been an off topic comment to comment on my dislike of Australian politics. If you want to create a topic about Australia I will be sure to comment on our many problems - especially our racism, our imperialism, and our huge environmental problems.
I have said this before - I consider myself a citizen of the world before I am a citizen of Australia and hate nationalism. There are things I like about my country - such as having one of the highest life expectancies and literacy rates in the world. There are also things I hate about my nation. I could say positive and negative things about most nations in the world. However in many cases I see the negatives far out weighing the positives. Australia is supporting the murder of over 10,000 civilians in the Middle East, we are stealing oil and gas off one of the poorest nations in the world (East Timor) and we completely disregard the human rights of asylum seekers and refugees. Who cares how long we live or what good readers we are if we are responsible for such actions.
We are also a democracy which means that the decisions made by those that represent us are ultimately our decisions - so the murder and bloodshed occurring in Iraq is happening in my name! That makes me sick. It makes me ashamed to be associated with a country like Australia with such a low view of non white human life.
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MegaFighter_X
- Post Master General
- Posts: 2334
- Joined: 27 Apr 2003 16:52
- Location: Las Vegas
- Contact:
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MegaFighter_X
- Post Master General
- Posts: 2334
- Joined: 27 Apr 2003 16:52
- Location: Las Vegas
- Contact: