Outsider wrote:Another hypothetical: If I live in a state that always votes Republican by a large majority, I know casting a vote for the Democratic party in that state means zero because of the electoral college. I might feel pretty apathetic about the voting at all as my vote really and truly doesn't count even the tiny fraction that it might without the EC.
I'm feeling you here. I don't feel loyalty to any particular party (another pitfall of the system is voting based on party and not on candidate), but my state (NJ) tends to vote the way I would vote. But, the point is, currently it's the voice of the state, and states don't tend to swing, so why vote at all?
Another interesting fact is that when you vote, your representative does not even have to vote for the party that you intend to support. Meaning, you rep could vote repub even though he/she's a democrat. This is typically only done when the rep's vote doesn't matter, and is done to prove a point/send a message. However, it is kinda interesting...
But surely that's a good thing!! Everybody should be entitled to vote for whoever they want and it should be a secret ballot so they can't be prosucuted for voting for "the wrong person"
The US voting system does sound a little weird. In Australia we have a similar process to the electoral college in that the country is divided into electorates based on population - so every electorate is equal in numbers and the person running in each electorate who gets the majority is elected to that seat. This means that some years the party that overall gets the most votes doesn't get elected because the seats it wins, it wins by a lot while the seats it loses it doesn't lose by very much. However the electorates are much smaller than US states - even as a percentage of the population - I'm not sure what the the exact size is but I guess it's probably around 100,000 people. Also we don't get to vote for the leader we want and instead can only vote for the person we want at a local level - which means that things are less of a popularity vote and more based around policies. What this means is if a person makes one speach that people think is a little silly - it doesn't immediatly put them out of the race and I find it incredible that someone can lose an election based on the way they speak rather than what they want to do for the country.
Anyway I've enjoyed reading this. The Australian election is coming up fairly soon (October 9 I think) and I'm looking forward to getting to vote in a federal election for the first time (the last election was like 4 days before my birthday - we don't have set terms so it was another reason to hate the current government!!)
I moved to CA because I wanted to get away from the slow minded slow moving good ole folks of NC. While I was instilled the values and morales and had religion crammed down my throat, I was left with quite a few of them as part of my being. Although CA doesn't entirely swing my way, I can succeed faster and attain more of my goals here in CA.
So I can't say that I agree that we are one big happy country. I much more enjoy the benefits of being a Californian than a United States Citizen. So I'm not prepared to hand my state over to the US so other states like NC and SC (who ain't gots no clues) can determine the fate of things.
For now I'll stick with the electoral college until college graduates out number non-college graduates. Then I wouldn't mind so much if educated people of the Union make the popular vote. I'd rather have an educated popular vote over an ignorant one.
I vote third party because I, too, condemn terrorism:
Chomsky wrote:In much of the world the U.S. is regarded as a leading terrorist state, and with good reason. We might bear in mind, for example, that in 1986 the U.S. was condemned by the World Court for "unlawful use of force" (international terrorism) and then vetoed a Security Council resolution calling on all states (meaning the U.S.) to adhere to international law.
...
Wanton killing of innocent civilians is terrorism, not a war against terrorism.
In denmark we got lots of parties (: You have to get like 20.000 signatures to put your partie up the election. So you get people in to the "Folketing" after how many votes you got.. Then there are also the personal votes where there are chosen an "Statsminister" there are like a president but not as powerfull, and then there are finance ministers and a lot of other ministers.. The partie's person with most votes are then being the "statsminister" the others are choosen by him, and the votes..
[ This is not totally right, but its hard to wrote at english, and im not totally into it.. ]
government is nothing but a joke. It was not meant to get the people what they want, rather it is meant to harness a mass of people into a single ideology. There is no fucking way possible that any government ever will be able to please everyone. Sadly, most dont even make an effort to please anyone except the wealthy. Why? Because with money comes power. With power comes whatever you want. Any government gives way to special interest crazy assholes that have too much money, so they need even MORE money.
I dont understand why humanity has whored itself out to something as valueless as money and gold and meaningless crap. Not just amerika, but humanity in general. Thats what its all about to us. True there are some that truely live for something; love, creativity, forward thinking, even misguided souls living for any particular religion and believe it in there heart. Sadly these people are thought of as mere piggy banks that can be smashed open by those with the power(money)
I mean lets face it whats the difference between me and any member of the government? They are all fucking filthy rich. What would I have to do to become president or senator or congressman? I would have to be filthy rich. Thats what it takes, and all it takes. Be born into wealth and whore it all up for no good reason to pass onto future generations to keep the cycle of greed continuing.
I wish I could vote for "please stop being douchebags, all of you"
I wish I could vote for "fucking hell people whats wrong with you!?"
I wish this world wasnt like it is.
I understand that sentiment exactly. I think though that government has a lot of useful things that support it and democracy really is a great system of organising people into doing the best things for society. It's a big shame that democracy has been hijacked by capitalism and that socialism has been demonised to the extent that it's not considered as either an option or as something that can co exist with democracy. I'm an anarachist and I think there are many forms of anarchist governments that would provide much more equal and healthier forms of society. I believe that there is a strong connection between the poverty around the world and the capitalist governments of the western world. If you look at the world and not your own nation - it is obvious that the current systems don't work. 20% of the world own over 80% of the worlds resources. Many of these things include things like land, water and fossil fuels that I believe should belong equally to everybody (or not belong to anybody) - We did not create the land - how can I have a right to own it over somebody else.
Sorry for being a little off topic. I also have to say that having watched a lot more footage from the US campaign, I think voting third party is the only intelligent option. If I lived in the US, I don't think I could possibly bring myself to vote for either party - they both suck. I also think I would be a lot more politically active in trying to make people aware that the current US system is not the best and does not need to stay the same. It really needs to be reformed so that you aren't forced into voting for one of two ultra right wing nationalist capitalist parties. I think it's no surprise that the majority of US citizens don't vote.
thats what i just said
