Are we really free? Can humans, either with or without a system of government, ever be free?
I guess it depends on your definition of freedom. I read somewhere that freedom is a right to do what you choose to do and it's the right to not interfere with others' freedom (along those lines, I'll correct it when I find out for sure).
According to that, however, it's a paradox. With that defnition then you are not free if you can not commit murder. And, if you are allowed to do so, you are violating the victim's rights of freedom.
Or if you are a smoker. You have the right to smoke. But you don't have the right to pollute the air that a non-smoker breathes.
What are your thoughts?
Freedom is an Illusion
Freedom is an Illusion
- Byrin Wylie
ShrEdmonton
ShrEdmonton
-
sandman420
- Shredalicious
- Posts: 109
- Joined: 08 Sep 2004 08:41
- Location: Denton TX
we are all the slaves of ourselves.
Freedom will never actually exist in the current evolution of mankind. We are not to be trusted wth no "laws"telling us what to do. Human nature is beautiful, but also terrible. You see we are very smart, smarter than the anmals. However we are not smart enough to see that we are being fucking dumb. The next evolution (which will happen in a relatively short period of time, evolutions come faster and faster over time so it will probably take 20 - 30 years to complete the new evolution once it begins) will probably start after the destruction of civilization as we know it. Nuclear, virus, ice age, asteroid you name it, something will end current civilization eventually. Its only a matter of time man.
So after that, within 20-30 years you will se mankind change into its next evolutionary state. These new humans will either have to be much dumber or much smarter than our current state. Dumb enough to be hunter gatherers again or smart enough to all get along and be no need for "law". Then we will be truly free my man. Sadly we will see nothing but terrible slavery of body and mind, only our great grandchildren or their children or so on will have a chance at seeing true prosperity and freedom.
Freedom will never actually exist in the current evolution of mankind. We are not to be trusted wth no "laws"telling us what to do. Human nature is beautiful, but also terrible. You see we are very smart, smarter than the anmals. However we are not smart enough to see that we are being fucking dumb. The next evolution (which will happen in a relatively short period of time, evolutions come faster and faster over time so it will probably take 20 - 30 years to complete the new evolution once it begins) will probably start after the destruction of civilization as we know it. Nuclear, virus, ice age, asteroid you name it, something will end current civilization eventually. Its only a matter of time man.
So after that, within 20-30 years you will se mankind change into its next evolutionary state. These new humans will either have to be much dumber or much smarter than our current state. Dumb enough to be hunter gatherers again or smart enough to all get along and be no need for "law". Then we will be truly free my man. Sadly we will see nothing but terrible slavery of body and mind, only our great grandchildren or their children or so on will have a chance at seeing true prosperity and freedom.
-+=Ryan "The Sandman" Edwards=+-
-..,-=(peace in the middle west yo)=-,..-
-..,-=(peace in the middle west yo)=-,..-
I think it really depends on how you define freedom.
I think we are free to attempt to murder someone. But like everying - our actions have consequences and the consequence of trying to kill somebody is that they will try to stop you, they will probably hate you afterwards, you might go to jail etc.
I guess it's like a balance - we are free to do what we want, but so are other people. So if Byrin and I are both holding a rope and I want to pull it one way, I am free to do so. If Byrin doesn't like this and decides to pull it the other way - he is free to so aswell. However because we are both pulling in opposite directions, we won't both be able to get what we want. So we'll be forced to use politcs. Byrin might try to compromise with me and I'll use this as a stalling tactic so I can convince Mike Hansen to come and help me by telling him that the rope holds the world together and Byrin is trying to pull the world apart. Together we will defeat the evil Byrin - but if he realises what happens he'll try to get the help of someone else.
Anyway to get back to the topic - when you kill somebody or attempt to do it - you are pulling the rope in favour of being allowed to kill people. However many more people disagree and pull the rope the other way - so due to the conflicting freedoms - the resultant vector is that you get in trouble for it.
Sometimes 1 man can be a stronger puller than those opposing him. For example if Ales was pulling one side of the rope and Vasek, Ryan and Ken were pulling the other - I suspect Ales is much stronger (he looks stronger anyway) and may be able to still pull the rope in his direction. John Howard - the Australia PM - is a good example of this - at one stage over 90% of people in Australia opposed the war in Iraq yet he was still able to pull hard enough to make it happen.
So I think we are free within the constraints of reality and each other. I don't know if this actually makes us free or not. Certainly a lot of time we aren't free because we don't know what direction we want to pull in, or there are other issues that stop us from wanting to pull down the opposition.
I think we are free to attempt to murder someone. But like everying - our actions have consequences and the consequence of trying to kill somebody is that they will try to stop you, they will probably hate you afterwards, you might go to jail etc.
I guess it's like a balance - we are free to do what we want, but so are other people. So if Byrin and I are both holding a rope and I want to pull it one way, I am free to do so. If Byrin doesn't like this and decides to pull it the other way - he is free to so aswell. However because we are both pulling in opposite directions, we won't both be able to get what we want. So we'll be forced to use politcs. Byrin might try to compromise with me and I'll use this as a stalling tactic so I can convince Mike Hansen to come and help me by telling him that the rope holds the world together and Byrin is trying to pull the world apart. Together we will defeat the evil Byrin - but if he realises what happens he'll try to get the help of someone else.
Anyway to get back to the topic - when you kill somebody or attempt to do it - you are pulling the rope in favour of being allowed to kill people. However many more people disagree and pull the rope the other way - so due to the conflicting freedoms - the resultant vector is that you get in trouble for it.
Sometimes 1 man can be a stronger puller than those opposing him. For example if Ales was pulling one side of the rope and Vasek, Ryan and Ken were pulling the other - I suspect Ales is much stronger (he looks stronger anyway) and may be able to still pull the rope in his direction. John Howard - the Australia PM - is a good example of this - at one stage over 90% of people in Australia opposed the war in Iraq yet he was still able to pull hard enough to make it happen.
So I think we are free within the constraints of reality and each other. I don't know if this actually makes us free or not. Certainly a lot of time we aren't free because we don't know what direction we want to pull in, or there are other issues that stop us from wanting to pull down the opposition.
Once I realised that I could never receive a written copy of all the federal, state, and local laws and regulations I was governed by . . . I quickly forgot following laws and regulations. I believe I was born with all the abilities needed to make the best decision at any given time. Freedom with boundaries defined by laws and regulations is not freedom, it's a revokable permission slip.
The truth will set you free, but first it will make you very angry.
The truth will set you free, but first it will make you very angry.
