*individual claims Juice has 32 patent*IMPORTANT!STARTLING!

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 12 Nov 2005 18:11

ATTENTION!
EDIT---
new startling updates...
i recieved an ebay message from an individual referring to himself as "Scott" regarding my 32 that is currently for sale on ebay. this is the message in its entirety.

"Hello,
I noticed in your ad that you say your footbag is American Made. I don't see a Juice logo on it though. Did you know that the Juice design you are using is trademarked and patented by a company out of Oregon? Did you know that unless you bought it from them, or have permission to use the design from them, you're breaking the law?

Thought you may want to know.

Scott"

naturally i will take it down if this is true. im not sure if scott is actually affiliated with Juice, so i naturally sent a message to him asking for more information, and letting him know i was using different fabric, my OWN template, designed by my own hands, and a different filler, and asking exactly what was patented, and how that could be since even on Ebay there are dozens of 32s for sale by other companies and individuals that are not affiliated with juice. and then of course there are outside of ebay sellers.

anyone hear anything about this or have any additional information??!?

EDIT2--
i got more pissed about when i thought about it. assuming scott IS affiliated with Juice, the reason they are so pissed is because im massively underselling them on a product of FAR higher quality!! they use "synthetic suede" and a questionable filler is large bulky bags, while charging twice as much. RAH. THATS why they are hassling me, if this is all true.
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Has anyone sold legit ultrasuede light 32's on ebay? As in, is the market active and understanding enough to appreciate the 32's and pay upwards of 20 bucks for them. I am thinking of trying to sell a couple of my first 32's on ebay

(

)

just to see how it goes. Of course, you would have to properly justify the price, pointing out that it is hand-stitched with the best quality fabric that is used by the best stitchers and kickers in the world, as opposed to many machine-stitched bootleg bags. stuff like that.

crazylegs32 · Post by **crazylegs32** » 12 Nov 2005 18:54

The problem may be that facile bags are unpredictable and on ebay its very important to keep positive feedback. Some idiots could trash your bags and then make you look bad to the ebay community with negative feedback.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 12 Nov 2005 19:41

The main issue is that people buying from ebay likely wouldnt appreciate a 32 and they wouldnt know how to properly care for one.

Also, there is enough people here on modified that are willing to buy bags that it's really worth the effort to go looking elsewhere.

Also, get your mind off the $$$$!!!!!

Props on making your first 32's but don't expect to make any money from it until many many bags down the line once you've experimented with lots of different styles and panel sizes and fills and whatnot.

money shmoney!

darbsllim · Post by **darbsllim** » 12 Nov 2005 22:35

I was selling footbags on ebay all summer long. Ebay is sooo expensive though. If your bag doesn't sell - you have to pay outrageous fees, and if it does sell, you have to pay EXTRA fees =P

If I were you I'd focus my attentions on selling within the footbag community - I was selling cheap bags, like $4 and $5 each or less sometimes - plus I had about 400 of them.

If you made them all yourself from facile, then you're better off building a reputation for yourself here and at footbag.org / selling them to local merchants.

That's just my 2 cents.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 13 Nov 2005 07:40

mosher wrote:The main issue is that people buying from ebay likely wouldnt appreciate a 32 and they wouldnt know how to properly care for one.

Also, there is enough people here on modified that are willing to buy bags that it's really worth the effort to go looking elsewhere.

Also, get your mind off the $$$$!!!!!

Props on making your first 32's but don't expect to make any money from it until many many bags down the line once you've experimented with lots of different styles and panel sizes and fills and whatnot.

money shmoney!

that was kind of my attitude. i wasnt going to sell them for as much as most people on modifed (starting them at 15 bucks at the most), and i would also announce it to modifiers, so they would have a chance to get quality bags for cheaper, and so my name would get out there, as people tried and liked my bags. thats what everyone does...sell em for less (ok, yeah, a lot of people trade them and give them away to get their rep up...) so people will buy em later. so i wanted to get my bags to modifiers for less as well as dip my toe into the pool of a wider market.
but yes, i would like to eventually make back a good portion of what i spent...

quadgun · Post by **quadgun** » 13 Nov 2005 07:54

I remember Daryl used to sell Abshires on Ebay through the FreedomFootbags eBaystore.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 13 Nov 2005 09:36

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... Track=true

Guest_2 · Post by **Guest_2** » 14 Nov 2005 20:36

You Sick FUck!!!

$13??????

Crazy crazy crazy

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 15 Nov 2005 06:46

yeah, i wasnt planning on going that low...but i didnt want it to appear that i was overly interested in the money....

like i said, im mostly curious...if no one bids, im sure i wont ever try selling on ebay again.

Samurai · Post by **Samurai** » 15 Nov 2005 07:20

not ever? lol
thats a good description - but if you were REALLY cool u would have put a link to a GREAT shred video in ure auction - like a moir video or something - yo put the freestyle reality preview in it i dare you

http://www.penny-lane.com/techyes/vid/frp2k5.wmv

it has a good shot of emily opening up her hand with a bag in it

-sam

Guest_2 · Post by **Guest_2** » 15 Nov 2005 13:04

That was soo goofy!

Based on a true story???

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 17 Nov 2005 18:47

EDIT!! look up

hackeysnacker · Post by **hackeysnacker** » 17 Nov 2005 19:15

all u have to do is use 10 and 6 sided panels, basically, clip off a bit of each corner on the pentagons - it helps w/ the spacing anyhow. the patented design is pents and hexes. just assure them that you aren't using pentagons, that the stitching is what gives the panels their shape. Like Abshire, he uses 9 and 10 sided panels, but stitches them in a manner to simulate the outer design of a juice. fuck'em

keep stitching.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 17 Nov 2005 19:17

oh, is that it? just use 10 sided panels instead? haha, kididing, but, is THAT why abshire came out with the new version?!? if so...apparently the guy is right...but still, more info?!?

shaggster · Post by **shaggster** » 17 Nov 2005 19:51

i havent really read this whole topic just the first post, but i remember a couple years ago they tried sueing richard abshire for selling 32 panel bags

crazylegs32 · Post by **crazylegs32** » 17 Nov 2005 22:12

Toes has a little similarity to steve blow in that he and his group are kind of cultlike. I ran into them in an elevator at worlds once and I was holding my footbag, one of them asked to look at it so of course I handed it to him. He looked it over and then made the same claim scott did to you - that it was a patent infringement

. I told him he didnt invent the soccer ball and brushed him off but the funny thing was that they arent even footbaggers

.
Ignore those idiots thay are real assholes for giving you a hard time, I was gonna give you a hard time too but its because the only other sale on yur ebay account is for similac coupons. Dont you know selling similac coupons is illegal? Us taxpayers payed for those so that a needy mother can feed her kid and you are reselling them on ebay?

Splint · Post by **Splint** » 17 Nov 2005 23:13

The answer is yes. Toes has a patent on the 32 panel design. The reason he has become so addiment about it in the past two years is because he has a lawsuit against a major company that he sold rights to, but never paid him for it (or something like that). As part of the lawsuit his lawyers advised him to go after everyone. He even threatened Daryl with legal action for selling the Richies.

The stupid thing is that Richie was making those bags long before Toes put a patent on the design and as such would in fact have legal recourse to fight the patent. The problem is that it's a fuckin' pain to do so. Instead Richie altered his design of the 32 panel just enough in the cut of the fabric so as to void the patent with regard to his bags.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 17 Nov 2005 23:32

yeah I've discussed this issue with Jim Fitzgerald a great deal and I think that the 32 panel design is a generic design that was in place long before the patent - soccer balls for example and that since that is the case - unless you are using the exact shaped panels and stitching technique and I have no idea what this is then you should continue to sell the bags and let them waste money if it comes to it.

edit: One of the reasons I have this view is because I asked flying clipper for sponsorship and they responded by threating to sue me for holding the tournament if I gave out or sold non flying clipper 32 panel bags. I just wanted to make this very clear as I'm sure it's the kind of publicity they want to get on a footbag website. It would have been so easy to explain the situation and be positive about it - had their first responce not been so negative I may have made sure there were no illegal bags at the tournament.

The event is very generously sponsored by
www.freedomfootbags.com and www.elementalfootbags.com instead.

hackeysnacker · Post by **hackeysnacker** » 17 Nov 2005 23:57

I'm going to get a patent for the shapes of pentagons and hexagons, then sue flying clipper for using them in their design - "illegal bags" that's so goofy, people should be more worried about nickel and dime bags at marijuana festivals, but instead the police crack down on illegal hackeysacks and footbags at those sorts of gatherings. It's a hard world out there.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 18 Nov 2005 05:17

yeesh, thanks for the info guys. so far no response from 'scott' so im just gonna ignore it and sell this one, but not bother trying to sell anymore on ebay...as i myself surmised, and several other of you pointed out, the ebay crowd wouldnt appreciate quality 32s anyway.

crazylegs wrote:...but the funny thing was that they arent even footbaggers

i assumed as much...like i said, they are also pissed because my product is better (if nothing else, simply because i use facile and they use synthetic stuff, but im guessing mine are better anyway...however, never used a juice).

Crazylegs wrote: I was gonna give you a hard time too but its because the only other sale on yur ebay account is for similac coupons. Dont you know selling similac coupons is illegal? Us taxpayers payed for those so that a needy mother can feed her kid and you are reselling them on ebay?

heh heh, i have no idea about this...im actually borrowing my sister-in-laws ebay account because mine isnt connected to a bank account, so selling stuff on ebay is a lot easier with hers...especially since she has experience with it. so i have no idea what else she is selling; in fact, i dont even know what that is...but im semi-interested now, because it DOES sound bad.

well, i guess thats about it...thanks everybody!

good shred,
-pb

modified

individual claims Juice has 32 patentIMPORTANT!STARTLING!

individual claims Juice has 32 patentIMPORTANT!STARTLING!