The Heat

QuantumBalance · Post by **QuantumBalance** » 14 Sep 2006 23:51

Hey guys. Do any of you think about the global climate change that is occuring? I do. It's getting a lot hotter. More intense hurricanes are occuring. All time temperature records. Tornado records.

What can we as individuals do to combat this?

Help me think.

Guest_1 · Post by **Guest_1** » 15 Sep 2006 05:36

Become an elder brother and help save the world from us younger brothers who are destroying it

gangsta · Post by **gangsta** » 15 Sep 2006 05:58

A nuclear-winter is just thing we need.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 15 Sep 2006 06:11

If you give at shit AT ALL about this topic GO SEE THIS MOVIE: An Inconvenient Truth.

It features Al Gore, it's a documentary and it's fucking shocking.

Basically Al Gore is trying to educate the world about global warming.

If you go see this you will understand the situation fully and know what to do.

If you give a shit and have a heart you will go see it. Period.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 15 Sep 2006 08:34

I've been waiting for another thread like this, to expose Al Gore , and to actually debate what we have here.

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If evidence does support that warming is occuring, we must rationally look at what could be causing it, and rationally look at whether we can do anything about it.

Also, we must consider that whatever steps we take(to reduce emissions), or force others to take, may be offset, by increased emissions elsewhere.

Don't have a knee-jerk reaction and support "doing anything", just for the sake of "doing something".

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Yeah, if you do care, you should go see Al Gore's movie, and become a true believer.

Because if it's in a movie, it MUST be true!

However, read my suggestions and questions below about Al Gore, before eagerly shoving money into his already overflowing pockets.

Al Gore himself, is a ego-maniacal ,fossil fuels consumer, and greenhouse gas producer.

Since leaving the White House, how many times has Gore flown an a private jet accross the country, or around the world, to spout off about global warming, and to promote his movie?

How many times could he have held a video conference instead?

When not flying, how many SUV's are in his caravan, for day to day driving trips?

Could he, in one day, consume and pollute as much as every member ( and their families) of this forum combined?

Could he, since leaving the vice-presidency, consume and pollute more than I will in my entire life?

If emissions limits are forced on Americans, if you and I end up pulling a rickshaw around town, will Al Gore still be driving around in a caravan of SUV's? still be flying around the world in private jets, to condemn consumption?

So if you still want to pay your hard earned dollars to this millionaire for his movie, then I have a Valarie Plame book to sell you.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 15 Sep 2006 09:24

HighDemonslayer wrote:I'veread my suggestions and questions below about Al Gore, before eagerly shoving money into his already overflowing pockets.
.

Uh, I was under the impression that he was donating all the profits from the movie to causes that promote knowledge of global warming. But I guess I'll trust Nathan's diligent research network, and take his word for it that Al Gore is doing this to make a profit, and that my going to see it means he makes more money.

I also agree with Nathan that everything Gore says about conservation must be a lie, because he flies around in jets and drives a car. I think we shouldn't believe a word that any conservationist says, if they drive a car. We should only believe and respect the opinions of environmentalists if they have NEVER driven in a car, don't own one, and live in a mud hut somewhere, writing academic papers by the bioluminescent glow of a firefly lantern.

Thanks for setting me straight Nathan!

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 15 Sep 2006 09:50

Man I really hate to be the naysayer in this one, but there's just really nothing you can do, except adjust your own habits, and maybe try and get some of your friends and family to do likewise. Hey, take it a step further and try to reach out to your neighborhood.

Scientific reports come out daily on the effects of global warming, and now both parties agree that it is happening and that it's extremely destructive to the global environment. Do you think politicians are blissfully unaware of these reports? They read the news as much as anyone, so they must have some type of motivation for NOT doing anything about it. I'll take a wild guess and say money could be involved.

Like it or not, this 'democracy' we live in is a farse. People can scream and shout and march and all that, but you're not changing a thing. Try to change your circle of influence, and hope for the best.

Or, try to rally millions of Americans to go against the government in a civil war.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 15 Sep 2006 10:05

shredzilla wrote:Like it or not, this 'democracy' we live in is a farse. People can scream and shout and march and all that, but you're not changing a thing.

Total agreement with Chris. People in the Civil Rights movement in the 60s didn't need to scream, shout, march, or "all that" (get hosed down by high pressure hoses, get bitten by police attack dogs, or get beaten by racist cops) for racial segregation to end. It would have happened naturally. They were just wasting their time/getting exercise, and their actions didn't change a thing.

Similarly, we should just sit on our asses and not get politically involved, because our actions won't change a thing. Now pass me a beer and the xbox controller.

QuantumBalance · Post by **QuantumBalance** » 15 Sep 2006 10:26

C-fan! I know you're being sarcastic. But can you please make an unsarcastic post and give me some direction ... or something. Just make an un-sarcastic post explaining how you feel please.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 15 Sep 2006 10:38

Nathan, if you weren't brutally ignorant and you actually knew what the fuck you were talking about and how severe the situation is you would shut the fuck up.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 15 Sep 2006 11:17

I dunno. I haven't seen substantial evidence of global warming. I do know that the Earth does occasionally heat up a bit. Either way, it might be happening as a result of mankind, it might not, and if it is, it's probably much to late to do anything about it.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 15 Sep 2006 11:42

BainbridgeShred wrote:I dunno. I haven't seen substantial evidence of global warming. I do know that the Earth does occasionally heat up a bit. Either way, it might be happening as a result of mankind, it might not, and if it is, it's probably much to late to do anything about it.

No seriously, if you want to really understand the subject, go see Al Gore's movie. Don't think of it as anything political for Al Gore, because at it's core it isn't. This is a really serious subject that more people need to be seriously thinking about.

The PROBLEM is that way too few people realise how close we are to some really bad shit happening.

QuantumBalance · Post by **QuantumBalance** » 15 Sep 2006 11:54

Calm down.

This is based upon me seeing the movie. Dan, there is evidence.. strong evidence of it. You just havent looked it up. Please don't remain ignorant and look it up.

ARg.

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 15 Sep 2006 12:14

C-Fan wrote:
shredzilla wrote:Like it or not, this 'democracy' we live in is a farse. People can scream and shout and march and all that, but you're not changing a thing.
Total agreement with Chris. People in the Civil Rights movement in the 60s didn't need to scream, shout, march, or "all that" (get hosed down by high pressure hoses, get bitten by police attack dogs, or get beaten by racist cops) for racial segregation to end. It would have happened naturally. They were just wasting their time/getting exercise, and their actions didn't change a thing.

Similarly, we should just sit on our asses and not get politically involved, because our actions won't change a thing. Now pass me a beer and the xbox controller.

These are completely different times Ken. People march once a MONTH here in DC and it doesn't do jack. Yeah it worked in the 60s. But I guarantee the politicians of that day said to themselves 'We'll let them win this one. But never again.' Because it hasn't happened since then. The massive protests of 100,000 people here in DC for things like the environment, and the war haven't changed anything. It worked 40 years ago man, but I'm sorry to say we live in VERY different times now.

HG · Post by HG » 15 Sep 2006 13:17

honestly. the earth goes through gradual temperature changes constantly. Ice ages, melting of the ice. Before we had cars or electricity even. Many scientists ALSO believe that the minute change in temperature that is occurring is just a natural part of the sun's "routine". Every...I forget the exact number, but it may be million or so years, the sun goes through a temperature change, colder or warmer. It is believed that we are going through that now, with the addition of terrible pollution/smog/holes in the ozone, greenhouse effect.

In conclusion, both of those things are contributing. So you can slow it down, but you cant stop it. Cant stop the rock, cant stop the rock you cant stop, the rock

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 15 Sep 2006 13:19

Yeah they talk about all that in the movie too, it's really quite comprehensive.

I actually found the movie to be a very good summary of all the shit I'd read about the topic, from both sides too.

I think I should start a thread about the movie. It really moved me frankly..

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 15 Sep 2006 14:24

I didn't like the movie only because I felt like I learned nothing new. I've heard all of that before and more from various sources (in school, in newspapers, on television), though I will concede that he brought various lines of evidence together in a fairly easy to understand presentation.

Still, its annoying to see an educational movie and learn nothing because you're already ahead of it (yeah, I'm just THAT cool) .

Here's an interesting tidbit I learned on NOVA, a public television program who's subject is often some current science issue (you should all check out NOVA, its certainly one of the best programs on television ever if you like educational programs about science or history, etc. Most stuff on the History Channel or the Discovery Channel only wish they were that good):

Some forms of pollution appear to have actually been SLOWING global warming over the past few decades, by making cloud-tops MORE reflective to incoming sunlight, thus slowing the rate of global warming that we would otherwise experience due to a build-up of CO2 and other greenhouse gasses. Its an unfortunate unintended consequence that some efforts to reduce air polution are probably already hastening the advance of global warming by keeping these pollutants out of the air and thus making our clouds less reflective, allowing more sunlight in to act upon the greenhouse gasses... oh, the irony...

On another note, many predict that global warming will actually lead to a new ice-age as glaciers like those on Greenland melt and form a layer of low-salinity water in the oceans thus disrupting ocean currents that move heat around the globe by bringing it from warm areas to cold ones (like the gulf-stream, which keeps Europe unusually warm relative to its latitude). Global warming brings on an ice-age? Strange but true? Who knows what the outcomes of all this will be. One outcome is certain: weather we cook our planet or freeze it, life on earth will be disrupted to the severe detriment of all.

Personally, I doubt that we can actually save ourselves. Al's movie made me feel much more optimistic for a little while, but then I think back to my third paragraph above (efforts to reduce pollution can actually spead up global warming) and on the whole I figure that the human race (or at least, civilization as we know it) is totally fucked. I wonder why I'm still contributing to my 401k instead of spending that money while there are still some nice things left to spend it on. To quote Sting and his old band, "When the world is running down, you make the best of whats still around."

sniper4life · Post by **sniper4life** » 15 Sep 2006 16:04

I'm not sure how I feel about global warming right now, but here is a website with some charts I find interesting. http://vathena.arc.nasa.gov/curric/land ... mchng.html

The dashed lines being averages from about ten years ago. I have no idea how much we've increased since then, but the temperatures seem to go up and down alot. The third chart of the middle ages has a period that spikes drastically and appears to raise over a period of 300 years.

I'm not sayin we arent necessarily damaging our environment, but I was shown these before and average temperatures seem to fluctuate alot.

QuantumBalance · Post by **QuantumBalance** » 15 Sep 2006 18:03

You all keep pointing out that the temperature has fluctuated a lot.

Listen carefully.

The temperature HAS fluctuated a lot. So has the CO2 levels.

But, it has not been as HIGH as it is now. EVER!!!!!!!!!

Can you understand?

Bander87 · Post by **Bander87** » 15 Sep 2006 18:59

Psh, all we need is another Mount St. Helens to block the sun for a while (which actually lowered the earth's temperature I heard?).