Talking/sledging in circle comp

dyalander · Post by **dyalander** » 18 Oct 2006 07:55

What do people think about talking during circle comp? We had a fairly informal circle comp at the Sydney jam the other week and I noticed that they were the quietest circles I've ever played in. Can anyone tell me if there was much verbal interaction between players during circle comps they've competed in - particularly at worlds.
Personally I think players should be allowed to talk and even sledge other players. If there's better players than you in the circle the best chance you might have is to make a well timed, funny joke or remark, and throw their rhythm. Most top level competitive sports involve sledging these days why should footbag be different?
I guess a large part of my opinion is formed by the fact that our circles in Sydney are always pretty laid back and circle comp is meant to reflect shred circles. Do any of you guys have regular serious circles with little to no talking, or more specifically no joking? Should players who make jokes or talk excessively and distractingly during circle comp be penalised by the umpire?

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 18 Oct 2006 10:51

I think it's mostly a fairness issue. In the circle comps people still give eachother props even though they are 'against' eachother, that's because we're all still people that respect eachother. It's pretty rude to try to fuck up someones chance with the bag. Also, the heckling could easily lead to someone getting hurt, and that sucks.

Really, we should all have the same opportunity in the circle comp and we should all show respect for one another.

It's fine to joke and talk shit in a normal non-competitive circle, but that's not what the comps are.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 18 Oct 2006 12:02

Wasn't Ales doing stuff to mess with others during Worlds Circle Comp? Like, giving intentionally bad passes, and walking behind them while they played so his shadow moved over theirs?

Whatever the case, I think its a good idea to set up a rule ahead of time, if you are running one of these.

chris- · Post by **chris-** » 18 Oct 2006 12:33

C-Fan wrote:Wasn't Ales doing stuff to mess with others during Worlds Circle Comp? Like, giving intentionally bad passes, and walking behind them while they played so his shadow moved over theirs?

I was at the finals and I saw the circle final. I remember that bad pass from ales, but I dont think this was with intention. Even so was the stage not big enough to make up a circle, so it was actually a line contest.. and maybe was ales walking behind some other player to give him his space to shred.

Wasabi · Post by **Wasabi** » 18 Oct 2006 21:36

I believe a nice friendly talk and joke during circle comp to ease the tension is fine in my books. I wouldn't want heckling and efforts in disrupting strings to be an issue in it, though.

dyalander · Post by **dyalander** » 18 Oct 2006 23:01

I think it's mostly a fairness issue. In the circle comps people still give eachother props even though they are 'against' eachother, that's because we're all still people that respect eachother. It's pretty rude to try to fuck up someones chance with the bag. Also, the heckling could easily lead to someone getting hurt, and that sucks.

I don't think it's a "fairness issue" - it would only be unfair if only some people were allowed to do it. We would all still have the same opportunity to overcome and lay down some distractions. By the rest of the post it sounds more like a issue of respect between footbaggers. That's fine, and I agree that allowing sledging would mean more circles are more abrasively competitive, but I given that there is an umpire and an emphasis on respectful competitive play I don't think it would get physical. WHat about if you outlawed derogatory comments about other competitor's - that way you don't get specific verbalised attacks on people but can still joke around and try to make each other laugh.
I'd still give a guy props for something worth it, and I wouldn't cross certain personal lines, I'm just saying why remove wit from the arena of competition? If I can make a dude laugh in the middle of his run, and he subsequently drops the bag, thats a skill that should be rewarded.

professor · Post by **professor** » 19 Oct 2006 09:16

I would love to see this implimented. Heckling a player or messing with their head during shred is fun. Vegas players have this down to an art form. We love to heckle each other while in the shred circle. It should be allowed as long as some guidlines are adheared to so it doesn't get out of hand.

My favorite is yelling "THE!" after almost every trick.

sen · Post by **sen** » 19 Oct 2006 14:32

dyalander wrote: If I can make a dude laugh in the middle of his run, and he subsequently drops the bag, thats a skill that should be rewarded.

I thought the skill that was rewarded in Circle Comp was supposed to be something to do with footbag . . .

And also, someone brought up the point that this kind of thing happens in other sports, so why not footbag? Maybe because other sports aren't footbag. Footbag is a sport where the players are close to each other and want to see others do well. Why purposly mess up a friend just because they are better than you?

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 19 Oct 2006 15:14

I think this is a terrible idea. If for no better reason that I don't want to go to a tournament to compete against people's heckling and to watch people heckling each other. I'd rather lay down and watch uninhibited and sick shred. Let's use the fact that most of us know and like each other to our advantage and keep the competition within this sport positive. Why would you go out of your way to suggest that we should be negative to each other? In essence, what I'm asking is: why are you causing problems?

Edit: I would also like to point out that if heckling were allowed Kevin Richey would be world champion at Circle Comp. Just some food for thought. :p

dyalander · Post by **dyalander** » 19 Oct 2006 18:47

Footbag is a sport where the players are close to each other and want to see others do well. Why purposly mess up a friend just because they are better than you?

To win - it is after all a competition not just a shred circle - furthermore heckeling and verballing putting off other players is not a measure of disrespect or ill will - In many cases friendly heckeling is part of the fun of a game, in everything from boardgames, to card games to athletics and top level competitve team sports. Our family heckles each other when we play a board game or a card game, or cricket or soccer and its not a measure of any disrespect, quite the contrary, I find that outsiders for whom we have little respect or affection will get less heckling directed towards them. Also you often hear of friends competitng at the top level heckleing each other on the field but maintaining respectful friendships off it. I'm not suggesting we all go Mattaratzi and Zidane, I'm just suggesting we allow a little witty banter.
I believe an important part of footbag is the ability to lock out distractions and concentrate on the bag and your movement - If you create an artificially sterile environment during competition this important component of footbag is not tested.
Perhaps I'll just loudly yell encouragement and clap my hands at other competitors next time, that way I'll still be able to test their concentration with giving the impression that we are anything other than the best of friends.

Why would you go out of your way to suggest that we should be negative to each other? In essence, what I'm asking is: why are you causing problems?

I would hardly consider a single thread in modified "causing problems", leave alone the reasons which are clear from my other statements. Also if we don't discuss things we can't formulate opinions upon them which incorporate anything more than just your own limited perspective. At the very least the difference of opinion here shows that there needs to be clear comp guidelines which put everyone onto the same page so they all know what is and isn't allowed.

professor · Post by **professor** » 19 Oct 2006 20:00

I think some people find heckling/verbal banter a fun thing to do and others find it as a negative thing no matter what context it is in. So, I think the only way this would work would be for all the contestents in the circle to agree that talking is allowed in the circle. If someone finds talking during shred insulting or negative, I don't think we should force that rule on them.

This would work in the Circle Comp. because at the US Open I remember Ellis saying something like, "This is your guys' circle, so you make up the rules."

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 19 Oct 2006 21:59

professor wrote:I think some people find heckling/verbal banter a fun thing to do and others find it as a negative thing no matter what context it is in. So, I think the only way this would work would be for all the contestents in the circle to agree that talking is allowed in the circle. If someone finds talking during shred insulting or negative, I don't think we should force that rule on them.

This would work in the Circle Comp. because at the US Open I remember Ellis saying something like, "This is your guys' circle, so you make up the rules."

Well put.

Sorry Dyalan, I was just joking around.

Oroza · Post by **Oroza** » 20 Oct 2006 00:50

basketball wouldnt be any fun with out it.

hacksterbator · Post by **hacksterbator** » 21 Oct 2006 16:13

if i any one heckled me in a circle comeptition, i'd probably give them the worst passes ever, or stand really really close, or bat the bag out of the air when it was their turn. and if they continued i would probably punch them in the teeth. seriously, i'm heated enough in a regular circle. add the pressures of competition with some dick face taunting me during my turn and i WILL get violent.

dyalander · Post by **dyalander** » 21 Oct 2006 18:05

Sorry Dyalan, I was just joking around.

There is absolutely no reason to apologise (I saw the smiley face in the original post so I knew it wasn't serious) I thought I'd just answer the content anyway.
I don't think this is something that should be decided on by the circle - either circle comp should involve testing wit and concentration as well as the more obviously physical skills of footbag or it should be limited to the test of the later only. You can't just decide for the circle - what if I'm not good at clippers, can I have a cry and say toe moves only for this circle, and if it happens to be in the same circle as cod and janis, have some poor dude outvoted

. Of course not, what skills are tested by a circle is not something that should change from circle to circle.

if i any one heckled me in a circle comeptition, i'd probably give them the worst passes ever, or stand really really close, or bat the bag out of the air when it was their turn. and if they continued i would probably punch them in the teeth. seriously, i'm heated enough in a regular circle. add the pressures of competition with some dick face taunting me during my turn and i WILL get violent.

If someone gets heated in a normal circle I suggest that's something they should work on improving. I won't presume to know anything about you or your game to make such a suggestion, it would be silly for me to make such a judgement based on a single post you've made on an internet forum, but I play regularly with someone who gets very frustrated, and it's always better for his game when he controls himself. Mental control is something you can drill just like physical control.
Again there's a difference between taunting and simply being distracting, not that punching someone who has verbally taunted you is at all acceptable, I'm just saying that what I'm talking about isn't really taunting. Keep in mind it would be easy to give the umpire a set of rules outlawing verbal abuse, and personal verbal attacks. I'm talking more about limited light-hearted banter designed to undermine the seriousness of the circle and potentially the concentration of the players. MOre to the point, if you can't control yourself under pressure you don't deserve to beat players who can. If we are to tiptoe around people who threaten violence we give them the oppurtunity to win and they don't deserve that oppurtunity.

james_dean · Post by **james_dean** » 21 Oct 2006 18:21

This is why I hate shredding with Dyalan... laughing destroys my abs and I can't hit ANYTHING. He tries to make you laugh on purpose ><

At first I completely disagreed with the idea, but I guess I see what you're getting at now. There would need to be set out rules to stop any actual sledging, I don't think that has any place in footbag.

SlashC · Post by **SlashC** » 21 Oct 2006 21:24

I am against sledging because I think trying to mess someone up in a competition is unsportsmanlike. I wouldn't want the circle comp to turn into american wrestling (the ultimate extreme!).

mc · Post by mc » 22 Oct 2006 11:17

I think heckling and interference in competition shouldn't be allowed during strings. Yes, it's in some sports, but not all; you don't see gymnasts or jugglers in competition trying to mess each other up. It's fun to break each other's chops a little bit between strings, but that's something I'd only do with a friend. If I was on the outs with someone, I wouldn't tease them or anything in competition, because I know that would really put me off if it was the other way around.

I guess some people are fiercer competitors than I. If someone was heckling me during a string, I'd probably drop pretty quickly, and get really pissed. Maybe I should tell my friends to heckle me more when we play casually so I can get used to this new competition element, if this is going to be accepted

blitz · Post by **blitz** » 22 Oct 2006 20:26

Don't worry. If anyone heckles another player while I am referee, he will be swiftly ejected from the Circle, or at least miss a turn or two for the first offense. Perhaps those who want to fu*k up their opponents should read the etiquette.

Etiquette of the Circle wrote: 1. Give good passes.
2. No self-serves and no pass-backs.
3. Donâ€™t distract other players.
4. No unsportsmanlike conduct, including arguing with the referee.
5. Donâ€™t exploit the time, such as playing below oneâ€™s level just to go long.

I know I sound like a hard ass, and I honestly do welcome any and all suggestions, especially since the Circle is still in its premiere year. I just feel this idea is grossly unsportsmanlike. What's next, fighting like in hockey? No thanks.

EDIT: Andrew Grant (hacksterbator) made me LOL really hard.

professor · Post by **professor** » 22 Oct 2006 22:41

I don't see how friendly joking is "grossly unsportsmanlike", but like I wrote before...

some people find heckling/verbal banter a fun thing to do and others find it as a negative thing no matter what context it is in

So, there really is no sense in discussing implementing it in the Circle Contest since not everyone will agree. Maybe people who enjoy joking around during a circle shred can compete in their own fun little competition in addition to the regular comps.