The Future of Footbag in the US (long post, worth the read)

[Senor Grommet]

Modified,

As some of you may not know, at Worlds 2007 a summit called the Conference on the Future of Footbag Net was held by Yvez Archambeault. Most attendees were footbag players with an interest in net. Its purpose was to discuss the future of the sport of Footbag Net, which is not currently experiencing the surge in popularity that freestyle is, and how to counteract Net’s current popularity stagnation.

I had a few ideas on this topic, which I presented to the group of attendees and will present here. I want to make this knowledge public so that I/we may get feedback from the largely freestyle crowd here at modified.

First, some facts:

1) At tournaments nowadays, net and freestyle occur at the same venue with decreasing frequency. When attendees are lucky enough to have both disciplines at their fingertips (or toes), most choose to stick only to the discipline they are already good at. At Worlds for example, 7 days was not enough for some freestylers, who were actually interested in watching a bit of net, to wander over to check it out because there were just too many shredders to play with. Only a handful of net players actively watched freestyle.

2) Tournament venues are not necessarily conducive to having both disciplines in the same area, such as at Worlds, where we needed to have a huge barrier separating net and freestyle so net bags would not routinely disrupt freestyle circles. The problem I saw was that freestylers could not see net being played AT ALL, and vice versa, unless players made the effort to peer around the curtain.

3) There is no longer an Overall world champion footbag player, so there is little incentive for players to practice and reach the top in both disciplines. Specialization has taken over.

4) Specialization has lead to segregation of the freestyle and net communities.

5) My goal is to help today’s young batch of footbag players to experience and hopefully learn to enjoy both disciplines, freestyle and net.


One idea I have for increasing access to footbag net, a sport that many freestylers have never even seen, is for the two largest net set providers, Emmanuel Bouchard, and WFA, to offer footbag net sets to freestyle clubs around North America at a significantly reduced rate. Currently, depending on the quality of the set, it costs between $90 and $125 to have a footbag net set delivered to a location in the United States. This is simply too much for a freestyler(s) to pay for a sport they may or may not enjoy. BUT, what if a promotion was offered to interested freestyle clubs with 4 or more active members to purchase a net set and a net footbag for $65, (fully or partially) refundable within 4 months of the purchase date if not enjoyed . . .? That would be only 11 dollars per person! This might encourage freestyle-only clubs to try out net and to attract new members to its club, it might rejuvenate inactive club members to come out and try footbag in a different way, and it will definitely improve outside kicks for foursquare

A second idea I have is for promoting the interaction between freestyle players and net players: holding an event or a series of footbag events around the US that would:
1) showcase the top net players in the sport today competing in today’s common freestyle events and vice versa (the freestylers competing in net events), or
2) be in the style of a pro-am net event, where pro-level net players would be paired up with freestylers in tournament style play.

Imagine the fun of watching Jim Penske try to spike a net bag on Henry Griese with a jumping outside kick and falling on his ass, while all the freestylers gathered around on the grass surrounding the court laugh hysterically about how such a great freestyler plays like a fish out of water on the net court. I’d certainly spectate and heckle very loudly! Imagine the best net players, some with more than 20-30 world titles (most of whom started out as freestylers), returning to the stage to perform a routine like they did 15 years ago, before you’d ever even heard of Hacky Sack! Turn back the clock!


My third idea is simply to have one or more Net exhibition matches at interested freestyle-only events, particularly those with highly public, visible venues. New Year’s Jam in Chicago is a good example of an event at which this could work, and freestyle events that coincide with large outdoor festivals.


The way that Footbag Net is currently overlooked and negatively regarded in the US by most of today’s footbag players as an “old person’s sportâ€

[mosher]

I feel like I can partially blame you for planting the seed of net excitement in me. I think you are the only net player I've ever seen really putting much effort into getting stylers into it. Your 'come and try it' attitude is alot more inviting than the vibe I get from most other net players which is more like they are from some other world I can't relate to.

I would buy a net set.

I really feel like you are the ideal person, at this time and place in footbag, to be doing this. You have already earned the freestyle communities respect and we all know you've safely ventured over to the dark side and returned unscathed.

Does net intrigue me? Certainly.

What holds me back from playing? Improper equipment and lacking funds to change that. I need net shoes mostly, I can make a net and I own net bags.

I don't think many freestylers really put much thought into the issue. I can't remember a time where this sort of topic came up while chatting with freestylers, it just sorta feels like a non-issue unfortunately.

Perhaps what is needed is precisely what you are doing. I think it's a good time to step back and look at the situation and decide what makes most sense.
Both sub-communities will be stronger if we continue to plow forwards together.

[Sporatical_Distractions]

I've wanted to play net for years, and finally got the opportunity at Worlds07.

Had net and freestyle been separated before that, I never would have gained this new found love for Net. This game is too fun and has inspired me to train and possibly compete in Prague.

Separation is silly. Footbag is all about love. love for something different, love for something simple, love for the new friends you make, and love in other areas that are too innumerable and impossible to classify here.

Net Rules. There should be no separation. It will only hurt footbag and cause stupid quabbling(sp?) that is not needed. sure there are comments about net being the 'dark side' but that's all in fun and not a serious attack.

In order to gain more net players and an understanding, they should be unified.

[cammel]

Well i guess my thoughts on net:

I'm pretty certain net will never be nearly as popular as freestyle for a few reasons. First, you said it, theres a pretty big start-up cost... bigger than freestyle for sure. Second, and this is the most important problem for net, is that you have to have someone to play with. A lot of freestylers, maybe even the majority, do not play with other people a lot of the time. People have different schedules so a solo freestyle session is perfect cause whenever you have some free time you just slap on your lavers and go out back. So if you're trying to play 1v1 or 2v2 net you have to get 2 or 4 people together to practice and thats not something you can do all the time like freestyle. Third, you need a good place to play like a park or something, i think most people wont have houses that would work for net.

For these reasons, most people or clubs wont play net more that once or twice a week I'd bet, while freestylers can have sessions of some sort every single day.

I think the a lot of freestylers would like to play net if they had the chance. I tried to at worlds. But I could never really get into it because noone here plays...

Good luck keeping it alive

[Tsiangkun]

There really isn't that much difference between figure skating and hockey, and yet they keep holding their events at different times.

I guess it's that whole, one is a judged performance and the other is a game with a score thing.

[C-Fan]

I think Gray and Cam bring up many valid points. To reiterate what Cam says: net is fun, and so is freestyle. But they're really very different sports. Foursquare and freestyle don't have much in common either, but there is crossover because foursquare is easy to learn and requires little energy, unlike net. I feel this point needs emphasis; net and freestyle are both disciplines that require a lot of time to even get competent at. Net at the beginner level isn't very fun, or very pretty to watch. You could say the same about freestyle too (remember learning flip clipper?).

I personally don't play net not because it's not fun (I always enjoy playing net), but because it is difficult to have the muscle development to play both. My muscles are very finely tuned for freestyle. When I play net, its a completely different set of muscles, and playing net once in a blue moon leaves my legs so tired I can't freestyle well the next day.

[professor]

The reason I don't play net is because to even have a chance to be a good competitor in freestyle, you have to devote your life to it. There's really no room left in my life to practice net. I think this is why the majority of freestylers don't play net on a regular basis.

I don't know how much practice net takes, but I can bet that net players are probably in the same boat as we are.

By the way, I really like your second idea.

[pips]

I've played net once. It was one of my only chances. I had lots of fun and wanted to play again since then. I never had the chance.

I would play a lot more if I was around people who played and had the equipment like everyone else says...I would atleast try to play a lot more with the rare, extra time that I get.

I know I would love it if I ever had the chance to play it more often. I see it as a footbag and volleyball mixture...two of my favorite sports.

As far as making it more popular, I like your ideas. Unfortunately, I don't think I could find time and people to get a net group together and buy a set right now. I will continue to watch any net games I can at tournaments in the future. I will also try to play any chance I get.

PS...I meant to watch one of your games at Worlds, but I never knew when you were playing. I guess I could have put in more effort to find out. Sorry.

[Zeke]

Sunday we had a session with Net, Shred and Squares all happening simultaneously. It was pretty cool to see. I'm sorry to say that my competitive drive on the net court got the best of me and I pretty much ignored some of the interested 4S players that might have wanted to play a pick-up game. My eagerness to learn has been overriding the need to bring in new players lately. I want to help bring the net scene back here in Chicago but I haven't quite seem to have found the balance between personal progress and sport promotion.

Spiking feels SSSSOOOOOOOOOOO RIGHT!!!!!!!

[Ian Brill]

The two sports are very different, though I do enjoy watching net in person. It is unfortunate that scheduling and location makes it hard to do both this, shred, and meet up with people at tournaments.

[Dat]

I think Cameron's figure skating and hockey analogy works really well. I don't think the similarities between net and freestyle are that important to keep them tied together. I don't think freestyle requires net to survive.

Net requires a competitive spirit AND the willingness/desire to practice something that is bizarre and unpopular. If I were to quit freestyle for a competitive sport, I'd pick an arena where I would have more people to whoop, eg hockey and basketball. I would not pick some obscure sport with a steep learning curve none of my friends would ever throw money or time at. The satisfaction from competitive sports comes from playing with and beating peers, and net can't compete with the other established US sports in that aspect.

I think the only real chance of gaining more net players in the US is to popularize 4square with school kids. Eventually some of those kids will develop an appreciation and interest in net (the same kind of appreciation I assume europeans have for net and footbag in general after growing up with soccer), and will have enough foot coordination to have the confidence to try playing. You won't have to convert them because they'll already enjoy kicking footbags and beating other players, and will feel at home playing net. I think spreading 4square would be far more effective for sustaining net than trying to mooch a handful of players from the freestyle community.

[Rieferman]

Helping freestyle's popularity is the fact that you can play it by yourself. With Net, not only do you have a steep learning curve, but you have to find someone else that's willing to battle the learning curve too. And if one of you learns faster than the other, the games just aren't fun.

In college, we had a lot of success by playing Takraw (which we called Buka after the brand of ball that we used). We'd have keg parties centered around the game and would have teams lined up. Everyone has played youth soccer, so everyone was able to be competent withing a game or two. It was a blast. That got people used to kicking things over a net, and some of us tried footbag net here and there as a result. To this day though, I prefer Takraw to net. The fact that you can get a nice rally going without pros on the court makes it so much more fun for the once in awhile player in my opinion.

[Outsider]

I'm pretty certain net will never be nearly as popular as freestyle for a few reasons.

Funny... people used to say the exact opposite thing. For years Net was the dominant partner, and did alot to carry freestyle. Freestyle might not even be around if not for net. For the several reasons why freestyle should be more popular than net, a reasonable person could list several reasons why net should be more popular than freestyle, and in the not distant past it was that way. For instance, the goal of net is much easier to understand for the many millions of people more familiar and comfortable with the more traditional head-to-head point-scoring sports like Tennis and Beach Volleyball. In just the past few months I have seen and heard several examples of uninvolved people noticing net and stopping to watch. Obviously, I have seen numerous examples of people walking right past amazing displays of freestyle without stopping for an instant.

Things have changed over time. Don't get too comfortable with that, because things could always change again, and sooner or later they probably will. (I'll never forget a conversation I had with a neighbor back in the early summer of 2001. He felt sure that since American had "won the Cold War" that this nation had no credible enemies left. Who would try to tangle with the U.S.A. now that we were the world's predominant - probably sole- superpower? I cautioned him against this line of thinking, knowing that the unexpected has a certain inevitibility, even when, like us, we could not imagine what form that inevitible future would come in. I reminded him that in the 1920's people called the first World War "The Great War", and refered to it as "The War To End All Wars", believing that no war could ever be larger. It wasn't even a quarter century before they had to change the name of "The Great War" because an even bigger global conflict had come along. A few months later an emerging enemy performed a direct attack on the Pentagon, and completely destroyed the World Trade Center.) Unexpected changes happen, despite what may seem like several good reasons to the contrary as to why that should not happen.

Anyway, even though I suck at net, I really enjoy it. However, I often pass up the chance to play more of it because, like many others, I fear it will interfere with my freestyle. Once in a while, though, I get talked into some net and find I really like it.

I think that net has some things to offer to freestyle. I think it attracts the attention of certain people much more readily. They can recognize it as an interesting competition to watch, and they can follow the game easily. All you freestylers must have heard from people before... some cliche comments like: "it all looks the same to me" or "I can't even follow that little ball". I even hear that from dedicated hacky-sackers. Net is easier to understand and easier to follow, and could help attract attention to freestyle. It seems to me that it was some of the final Net games at Worlds the really filled the stands before the Freestyle Finals that followed.

Footbag in general has long benefitted from a relationship to other games. Originally, lots of early footbag events were held in conjunction with the then more popular Frisbee competitions. More recently, I have seen a variety of footbag events benefit by "piggybacking" on Juggling events. I think that net and freestyle should continue to sort of piggyback on each-other, for both our sakes. Regarding the curtain between Net and Freestyle, I think that this year's Worlds was the exception, not the rule. I have been to many events that had no substantial barrier between Net and Freestyle, and very few that did. Worlds, as fun and relatively well-run as it was this year, was f-ed up in a number of ways... that venue felt pretty much isolated and empty all week, and we had all our main events in the back of a mostly-empty gym in the quietest corner of Disney World. Why did we even bother going to Disney if we were going to be so damn out-of-sight? Never mind that now, though. Thats a whole different issue.

Even though I rarely play, I feel committed to working with the local net players in my area to continue to host combined events, even if I can't ever seem to realize the promotional or other benefits for doing both events. One small benefit is the occasional opportunity to actually play and enjoy the damn game. It almost makes it all worth it...

I think that one of my early motivations for developing any interest in Net at all was the Ironman contest at Funtastiks. I thought it was a really cool event, and I wanted to compete in it and do well. At least partly from my desire to perform in Ironman I developed an interest in learning a little bit of Net. I think events like that are lots of fun, even when I do very poorly in them (usually the case) and I like how they form a link between the two disciplines.

Another kind of event that might attract freestylers' attention to net is the Service Poaching event from Funtastics. Its a little bit like a "slam-dunk" contest. If you have never seen the event, a net player's partner will serve to them from across the court, and the competitor will attempt to "poach" the serve by rushing the net and spiking directly, without first receiving, or digging, the serve. The poaching attempts are judged subjectively with score-cards indicating numbers between 1 and 10, and the score is based on the spike's effectiveness, style, and also creativity (players will place an obstacle between themselves and the net and hurdle it on the way to the net, or leap off of it, etc.) (humor can count too) I think a Spiking competition might be a little cooler than a Service Poaching competition because it seems like it would be a little easier, and so the competitors would have a greater percentage of effective spikes (in the service-poaching event, they completely miss alot of their attempts... alot like in Big Three, which I also think should be structured to encourage a greater success rate, even if it means somewhat less impressive combos. Too damn many drops in Big Three or Sick One makes for a frustrating and disappointing event to watch).

I've got more to say, but, as usual, I'm doing this at work, and I've wasted too much time already. I'll be back later. Sorry to pick on you, Gray... its nothing personal.

[ianek]

i'm so pissed right now, i took an hour to write an long intelligent post, and my connection failed or something and now it's gone.

i'll try to make another one tomorow.

[ianek]

freestyle and net has nothing to do with each other.

why should we do both? do all jugglers plays volleyball?

many people posted very good technical reasons why freestyle is easier to deal with.

but the real thing is that all real freestyler fell in Love with freestyle, so they started to practice it a lot, and they wouldn't care at all about net, and it's normal. do all net players practice freestyle? no, they fell in Love with net.

more to come...

[ianek]

the goal is not to bring freestyler into net, it's to make YOUNG people start playing net.

the problem with net is that it's way to difficult. It's much easier to learn freestyle basics, as soon as you can do few tricks, you are PLAYING freestyle, but it's not because you can do 10 alternate outside kick with a crochet bag that you are ready to PLAY net.

the key is to bring a lot of young people into net and make them feel like they can become good.

more to come...

[ianek]

i have 2 solutions

first: 2SQUARE (i'm working on it right now)

it' fun, it's much easier than net (and freestyle) to learn basics, you don't need to : be a real athlete, be really flexible, fall on your back, play with special shoes/bag, have a net set (only chalk). you can play on grass or concrete, it doesn't cost much, it takes less space than a net court, it's not physicly demanding, etc.

and it have a lot of things in common with net: competitive aspect, 2 zone, lines, making points by kicking the bag into the opponent side, need efficient kick for defence and precise kick for attacks, etc.

as soon as someone can do few kicks, they can PLAY 2square. and school can easily paint 2 square court.

so, easy (easier) + accesible + young = good future

(so as soon as you are average 2square player, it would means you would be ready to TRY net.)



second, Smaller net court.

net should have small, medium, big court (net height would be lower and bag softer). So, for example, novice would play on small court, intermediate and women on medium court and open on big court.

If you are young/beginner/small, you will have a way to practice net without being discourage. If someone is interested enough to try net and start on a small court, he can easily have the feeling that it would be possible for him to become good/improve. That means he will come back next day. and for a small court, people won't need special shoes/bag or be real athletes. and as better as you get, you play on a bigger court.

don't you think that if you have a demo in front of 12 years old with a small court (soft bag) they can try, you will give net more chances of having new players? so demos will be a lot more worth it.

so, easier + accesible + young = good future



beleive it or not, i went practice some net with pro Montrealers today and yesterday for 2-3 hours both days, and it is way to difficult for average people. there is no way i could become really motivated about net with few hours of practice. but with a small court...

[Rieferman]

To go along with Janek's suggestions, there was a thread about this topic ages ago (on the old .org email lists I think) where some prominent net players suggested the development of a net footbag that is more playable for beginners. I believe they suggested a slightly bigger ball with a filler that provided more "pop". Goal was that this sort of ball woud be less prone to shank kicks and therefore wouldn't require a beginner to have special shoes etc. Not sure what that was abandoned, but it seemed like a good idea to me.

[pips]

I don't think changing the size of the courts will do anything. As much as it gives newcomers less space to cover on their side, it might frustrate them, because it gives them less space for their kicks to land inbounds. I don't know by net experience, but I know that one or two people can cover the whole court using certain techniques whether it be tennis, volleyball, badminton, or net.

The only sport I know of (or can think of at the moment) for having smaller play area is baseball/softball, and the field is probably smaller for kids and females to be able to hit homeruns, too. It's not like the net courts are inhibiting certain people from kicking the bag toward the back of the court or something. From my little experience in net (and tennis), it's not hard to hit the ball far.

(Sorry if this isn't the best explanation, my daughter just woke up, and she wants some breakfast. Now.)

[Asmus]

I don't think changing the size of the courts will do anything. As much as it gives newcomers less space to cover on their side, it might frustrate them, because it gives them less space for their kicks to land inbounds.

I only think this will be a positive thing!
When I moved from Tennis to Soft-tennis it had atleast.
Hard hits not good = Softer hits = More returns = Longer duels = More fun!

Ianek and Jeremy has really good ideas!

I know that there has been a mini netcoart at some european tournaments mainly used at the parties as a fun feature. Works pretty well.

Jeremy: You mention your own ideas. Where there any other good ideas suggested? I would love to hear them!

I have scored a couple of goals on scissorkick in soccer maybe I can get good at spikes one day..