student tasered at Kerry speech

Guest_1 · Post by **Guest_1** » 22 Oct 2007 07:31

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE

This is a video jeremy posted that freaked me out

What happened to free speech? You can even hear Kerry trying to answer the student's questions. I see no reason for the student to have been apprehended or tasered. I'm not sure if he should've allowed himself to be arrested and then fought it later or if the student body should have assisted.

How could these people have fallen to such complacency? Why wouldn't anyone help?

PegLegHolly · Post by **PegLegHolly** » 22 Oct 2007 07:44

theres already a thread for this, and its old news.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 22 Oct 2007 16:54

There's another video like that, where this kid is in a library and has to leave because he doesn't have a library card. Then as he's leaving the campus cops stop him and there is some discussion, and then they taser him 5 times! It's pretty bad, because the cops are like (having already tased him); "Stand up or you'll get tased again" and he doesn't stand up, so they taser him again, and again, and again. In the end, he has to be carried out, because he can't walk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvrqcxNIFs

I have to confess, traumatising as that video is, the best comment on it is;

terminator170 wrote:hahahahaha fag ass he cry like a baby

Also, shit is this is, just be glad you don't live in a county like Saudi Arabia, where the US sold hundreds of thousands of electro-shock batons that aren't used in over zealous police action, but in the torture of prisoners.

Guest_1 · Post by **Guest_1** » 22 Oct 2007 18:31

I don't understand how people can just stand by. I would personally do something. I'm very glad I haven't run into anything like that in my personal life, and G-d forbid I ever should.

How should someone deal with something like that?

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 22 Oct 2007 18:40

Yeah its fucking horrible.

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 22 Oct 2007 18:41

PegLegHolly wrote:theres already a thread for this, and its old news.

No, the thread was teh 'post your videos' thread. Perhaps marvlman thought it deserved its own thread. I agree.

Wu_ · Post by **Wu_** » 23 Oct 2007 03:36

MarvlMan wrote:I don't understand how people can just stand by. I would personally do something. I'm very glad I haven't run into anything like that in my personal life, and G-d forbid I ever should.

How should someone deal with something like that?

Glad to have not had the chance to see such a thing live either.. one of the most watched and discussed police action video. This kinda gives you a clue on what would happen if you tried to get in there and do something about wrong doings by the police (at the exact point in time that is)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EH6AYVn2yw4

Wu_ · Post by **Wu_** » 23 Oct 2007 03:37

oh and i have actually got into discussions on youtube ..and even though this police guy is choking the hell out of these people alot of the people on youtube said that this was the right way to react as police.

Frank_Sinatra · Post by **Frank_Sinatra** » 26 Oct 2007 05:57

I believe the correct word form is "Tased," bro.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 26 Oct 2007 13:52

Disturbing, yeah.

Maybe that crowd at the Kerry speech should have started throwing things at the cops and/or the guy they tasered.

Then again, it was "their" guy being challenged by questions, so reducing that guy to a "beaten subject of the state", was acceptable.

--------------------------------------

This is a great test case, for the goons to see how far they can really go.

The police state, in general, will probably continue these "probing" attacks on the peoples' freedoms.

Because if nobody stands up, over an over an over again, then the peoples should be oppressed by those in power.

Push , Push, Push more and then it will be to late when somebody finally stands up.

Hey, it might have been worse......... the cops could have called in backup, and then micro-chipped everyone in the building , thus ensuring their future obedience to Lord Kerry.

-hds.

Frank_Sinatra · Post by **Frank_Sinatra** » 26 Oct 2007 14:01

HighDemonslayer wrote:The police state, in general, will probably continue these "probing" attacks on the peoples' freedoms.

Like the velociraptors in Jurassic Park?

Clever girl.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 29 Oct 2007 07:48

hehe, yeah just like that, minus the 3 inch claws.

Bringerofpie · Post by **Bringerofpie** » 29 Oct 2007 13:57

Don't graze me, bro!

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 29 Oct 2007 20:37

Agents provocateurs are also used against political opponents. Here, it has been documented that provocateurs deliberately carry out or seek to incite counter-productive and/or ineffective acts, in order to foster public disdain for the group and provide a pretext for aggression; and to worsen the punishments its members are liable for (see Red-baiting). Terrorists and fringe political groups on both the right and left sometimes act as agents provocateurs when they seek to provoke government repression that they hope will alienate their potential constituency from the government in question, and thus increase support for themselves (as the opponents of the government in question).

This is all a big load of crap. This video barely even shows the last two questions the student asked. Some other videos will show that the student actually had a ridiculous laundry list of "questions" for Kerry, many of them, like the Skull-and-Bones question, having no real value, just a bunch of conspiracy-theory bunk that sounds damning to the uninformed but are actually largely baseless -- a lot of conspiracy-theory BS (and if you've ever tried to argue with some really serious conspiracy-theorists, the kind who are really worked-up and agitated, then you know that there is no reasoning with them, that they are armed with a suitcase full of important sounding factoids which you cannot debate with because you've never heard before from a legitimate source [they probably get all their info from the internet...] and their minds are already pretty much made-up anyway). That student was not really there to get answers to his questions, he was there to be a disruption to the presentation and to take over the spotlight and make himself the presentation and the issue at hand, and he succeeded. He was there to cause a scene and he got exactly what he wanted to get.

Notice that when the police first attempt to remove him from the scene, a significant cheer erupts from the rest of the audience. Why? Because the people who were actually there to see the scene this guy was causing before the police approached him were glad to see his disruptive antics curtailed. They were actually cheering for the police to remove that guy. Little did they know that his show was just beginning.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 30 Oct 2007 00:46

Sure, but I think the question is, is it neccessary to taser somebody when you have 5 people holding him down, or is that excessive use of force?

Should it be a crime to ask annoying questions?

Who decides what an annoying question is?

Actually he asked a total of 5 questions less than 100 seconds. How much of a disruption is that?

Here is the full transcript;

----
* 0:00 on YouTube video

John Kerry: [Finishing the answer to the previous question]: \"...and to continue to pile name upon name upon some wall in the future for a strategy that has failed. That\'s the distinction.\" [Recognizing and pointing to Andrew Meyer]: \"Sir...\"

Andrew Meyer: \"I first and foremost want to thank you for your time. You spent a lot of time talking to us here today. I want to thank you for coming and being open and honest. You recommended a book to us earlier; I had wanted to recommend a book to you. It\'s called Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast.

Kerry: \"Yeah, I have it, actually.\"

Meyer: \"Yeah, he\'s a top investigative journalist in America.\"

Kerry: \"I\'ve already read it.\"

Meyer: \"And [holding up a copy of a yellow paperback book, Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast], he says [in this book] you won the 2004 election!

Kerry: \"Great.\"

Meyer: \"Isn\'t that amazing! Isn\'t that amazing, you won in 2004! In fact, there were multiple reports on the day of the election of disenfranchising of black voters

Kerry: [Inaudible]

Meyer: [Officer Nicole Mallo places her left hand on the middle of Meyer\'s back] in Florida and Ohio.\"

Kerry: \"So, what\'s the question? What\'s the question?\"

[Police officer Nicole Mallo interrupts Meyer, saying \"Ask your question.\"]

Meyer: [Turning to police officer Nicole Mallo] \"I\'ll ask my question. Thank you very much. I\'ll ask my question. I\'m going to preface it. He\'s been talking for two hours, I think I can have two minutes.

Kerry: \"So, you want, you want to come up here?

Meyer: [Sarcastically to the Officer]: Thank you, thank youâ€”thank you very much.\" [Officer Nicole Mallo continues to argue with Meyer who then turns to side] \"I\'m going to ask him my question. I\'m going to inform people, and THEN I\'m going to ask my question. So there were multiple reports of of disenfranchising of black voters on the day of the election in 2004.\"

Kerry: \"Right.\"

Meyer: \"There was also voting machines, electronic voting machines in Volusia County, Florida that counted backwards. So, amidst all these reports of phony, bogus stuff going on, how could you concede the election on the day? [small applause] How could you concede the 2004 election on the day? In this book, it says there were five million votes that were suppressed and you won the election. Didn\'t you want to be President?
[Police officer interrupts Meyer, again saying \"Ask your question.\"]
I\'m not even done yet, I have two more questions.\"

* 1:21 on YouTube video

Meyer: \"If you were so against [attacking] Iran, how come you are not saying let\'s impeach George W. Bush Impeach Bush now? Impeach Bush now before he can invade Iran? Why won\'t we impeach him?! Impeach Bush! Clinton? Clinton was impeached, for what, a blowjob?! Why don\'t we impeach Bush?! All right? Also, are you a member, were you a member of Skull and Bones in college with Bush? Were you in the same secret [Meyer\'s microphone is cut off] society as Bush? Were you in Skull and Bones?\" [turns to side and says, sarcastically]: \"Thank you for cutting my mic. [turns to Senator Kerry and says] Thank you.\"

Kerry: \"That\'s alright.\" \"Let me answer his question.\"

[Not responding to John Kerry\'s request, Police officers begin to seize Andrew Meyer and take him away.] [inaudible] Excuse me, Excuse me, what are you arresting me for? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!\"[12]

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 30 Oct 2007 00:46

Sure, but I think the question is, is it neccessary to taser somebody when you have 5 people holding him down, or is that excessive use of force?

Should it be a crime to ask annoying questions?

Who decides what an annoying question is?

Actually he asked a total of 5 questions less than 100 seconds. How much of a disruption is that?

Here is the full transcript;

----
* 0:00 on YouTube video

John Kerry: [Finishing the answer to the previous question]: \"...and to continue to pile name upon name upon some wall in the future for a strategy that has failed. That\'s the distinction.\" [Recognizing and pointing to Andrew Meyer]: \"Sir...\"

Andrew Meyer: \"I first and foremost want to thank you for your time. You spent a lot of time talking to us here today. I want to thank you for coming and being open and honest. You recommended a book to us earlier; I had wanted to recommend a book to you. It\'s called Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast.

Kerry: \"Yeah, I have it, actually.\"

Meyer: \"Yeah, he\'s a top investigative journalist in America.\"

Kerry: \"I\'ve already read it.\"

Meyer: \"And [holding up a copy of a yellow paperback book, Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast], he says [in this book] you won the 2004 election!

Kerry: \"Great.\"

Meyer: \"Isn\'t that amazing! Isn\'t that amazing, you won in 2004! In fact, there were multiple reports on the day of the election of disenfranchising of black voters

Kerry: [Inaudible]

Meyer: [Officer Nicole Mallo places her left hand on the middle of Meyer\'s back] in Florida and Ohio.\"

Kerry: \"So, what\'s the question? What\'s the question?\"

[Police officer Nicole Mallo interrupts Meyer, saying \"Ask your question.\"]

Meyer: [Turning to police officer Nicole Mallo] \"I\'ll ask my question. Thank you very much. I\'ll ask my question. I\'m going to preface it. He\'s been talking for two hours, I think I can have two minutes.

Kerry: \"So, you want, you want to come up here?

Meyer: [Sarcastically to the Officer]: Thank you, thank youâ€”thank you very much.\" [Officer Nicole Mallo continues to argue with Meyer who then turns to side] \"I\'m going to ask him my question. I\'m going to inform people, and THEN I\'m going to ask my question. So there were multiple reports of of disenfranchising of black voters on the day of the election in 2004.\"

Kerry: \"Right.\"

Meyer: \"There was also voting machines, electronic voting machines in Volusia County, Florida that counted backwards. So, amidst all these reports of phony, bogus stuff going on, how could you concede the election on the day? [small applause] How could you concede the 2004 election on the day? In this book, it says there were five million votes that were suppressed and you won the election. Didn\'t you want to be President?
[Police officer interrupts Meyer, again saying \"Ask your question.\"]
I\'m not even done yet, I have two more questions.\"

* 1:21 on YouTube video

Meyer: \"If you were so against [attacking] Iran, how come you are not saying let\'s impeach George W. Bush Impeach Bush now? Impeach Bush now before he can invade Iran? Why won\'t we impeach him?! Impeach Bush! Clinton? Clinton was impeached, for what, a blowjob?! Why don\'t we impeach Bush?! All right? Also, are you a member, were you a member of Skull and Bones in college with Bush? Were you in the same secret [Meyer\'s microphone is cut off] society as Bush? Were you in Skull and Bones?\" [turns to side and says, sarcastically]: \"Thank you for cutting my mic. [turns to Senator Kerry and says] Thank you.\"

Kerry: \"That\'s alright.\" \"Let me answer his question.\"

[Not responding to John Kerry\'s request, Police officers begin to seize Andrew Meyer and take him away.] [inaudible] Excuse me, Excuse me, what are you arresting me for? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!\"[12]

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 30 Oct 2007 00:47

Double posted to empathise what a load of rubbish Jon\'s post was. Also posting from a proxy - hence the slashes - sorry.

Wu_ · Post by **Wu_** » 30 Oct 2007 07:13

Jeremy wrote:Double posted to empathise what a load of rubbish Jon\'s post was.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 30 Oct 2007 07:59

I concede the double post was accidental, but Jon's post certainly was rubbish; lets analyse it.

Outsider wrote:
This is all a big load of crap. This video barely even shows the last two questions the student asked. Some other videos will show that the student actually had a ridiculous laundry list of "questions" for Kerry

He asked 5 questions. 3 of them were basically the same question repeated (Why did you concede the election? How could you concede the election? Didn't you want to be president?)

many of them, like the Skull-and-Bones question, having no real value, just a bunch of conspiracy-theory bunk that sounds damning to the uninformed but are actually largely baseless -- a lot of conspiracy-theory BS (and if you've ever tried to argue with some really serious conspiracy-theorists, the kind who are really worked-up and agitated, then you know that there is no reasoning with them, that they are armed with a suitcase full of important sounding factoids which you cannot debate with because you've never heard before from a legitimate source [they probably get all their info from the internet...] and their minds are already pretty much made-up anyway).

He asked one question about conspiracy theories. In my English class we wouldn't call 1 of something "many." I agree that most conspiracy's a bullshit. He spent less than 5 seconds asking 1 question about conspiracy theories and 80 seconds asking 4 legitimate questions (well 1 legitimate question repeated 3 times, and another silly question if we want to be technical).

That student was not really there to get answers to his questions, he was there to be a disruption to the presentation and to take over the spotlight and make himself the presentation and the issue at hand, and he succeeded. He was there to cause a scene and he got exactly what he wanted to get.

I don't see how you can make that judgement when he was on stage for less than 2 minutes before being arrested. I just watched a political debate on TV and the people asking questions often spent 2 minutes prefacing their questions. Maybe it's not common at universities in the US, but it's certainly common in an Australian political debate when the people asking the questions are the top journalists in Australia.

Notice that when the police first attempt to remove him from the scene, a significant cheer erupts from the rest of the audience.

The first time the police approach him is after he's been talking for less than 30 seconds and before he's asked a question.

Why? Because the people who were actually there to see the scene this guy was causing before the police approached him were glad to see his disruptive antics curtailed. They were actually cheering for the police to remove that guy. Little did they know that his show was just beginning.

In no way does this justify the police action.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 31 Oct 2007 06:16

He asked 5 questions. 3 of them were basically the same question repeated

He asked one question about conspiracy theories. In my English class we wouldn't call 1 of something "many." I agree that most conspiracy's a bullshit. He spent less than 5 seconds asking 1 question about conspiracy theories and 80 seconds asking 4 legitimate questions

I'm going to try to keep this simple, because I'm very busy.

Accusations of conspiracy are implicit in ALL of his questions. In a sense, all his questions are really the same question: "John Kerry, isn't it true that you conspired with your opponent to throw the election, and refuse to impeach him from office, since he is not really your opponent but rather your confederate through your college secret society?"

In this way, none of his questions are legitimate questions, since they are actually not really questions at all but rather accusations expressed in the form of a question. This is what we call "rhetoric", as in, a rhetorical question, as in, "a question to which no answer is expected, often used for rhetorical effect."

The people running this event could see this right away, talked to the cops, who then approached the student.

Jeremy wrote:
Outsider wrote:That student was not really there to get answers to his questions, he was there to be a disruption to the presentation and to take over the spotlight and make himself the presentation and the issue at hand, and he succeeded. He was there to cause a scene and he got exactly what he wanted to get.

I don't see how you can make that judgement when he was on stage for less than 2 minutes before being arrested.

Like I said, it was clear from the start by the nature of his rhetoric. After the first cop, and John Kerry, pressured the student to get to the point and ask a question, he realised that he was not going to be given free rein to grand-stand, so he rushed through the rest, making sure to fit fivecalls to "Impeach Bush" in his so-called questions.

I just watched a political debate on TV and the people asking questions often spent 2 minutes prefacing their questions. Maybe it's not common at universities in the US, but it's certainly common in an Australian political debate when the people asking the questions are the top journalists in Australia.

But, Jeremy, this was not a debate, it was a speach and question-and-answer session. The student, you might say, was trying to (inappropriately) turn it into a debate, and for this he was asked to leave (I wouldn't really say he was trying to turn it into a debate, since really he was just hurling accusations of conspiracies at the speaker, but in either case, as I said, he was trying to steal the spotlight and cause a scene.) Furthermore, top journalists get to preface their questions in political debates in part because they are top journalists and come with built-up credibility and respect for those they are addressing, and are treated with similar respect. Arm-waiving, accusatory and belligerant twenty-somethings don't have, and don't yet deserve, the same kind of credibility and respect.

In no way does this justify the police action.

No, you're correct, the questions he asked don't justify his being tased. But he was initially just asked to ask his question, then he was asked to leave, then he was asked to lay down and be handcuffed, and he clearly demonstrated his unwillingness to comply with any of these requests, running from the police, squirming from their grasps, refusing to lie down, shouting and carrying on... (reminds me of Monty Python's Holy Grail: "help, help, I'm being repressed. Come and see the violence inherant in the system.) His words didn't necessarily deserve his eventual treatment, but his attempt to subvert a legitmate public forum and his actions failing to comply with the police and causing a public disturbance did.

As I said, I suspect that this was pretty much the effect that he was going for. In sports, its called "drawing the foul" (like we discussed last year in regard to the Italian soccer players in the World Cup bumping into their opponents, pretending to be knocked over, and crying for the refs to call a foul on the other team). In other words, a drama-queen provoking a reaction the he knows will gain him the empathy of the crowd.