Footbag world ranking - where to find it?

Wim · Post by **Wim** » 22 Apr 2008 01:22

This is a potentially stupid question for someone who has been in the sport since 2003, but is there such a thing as a 'footbag world ranking' (like there is for e.g. tennis and cycling...)?

I believe there is, but where can I find it?

Advance in you thank!

ville · Post by **ville** » 22 Apr 2008 02:21

Only for net, and it can be found here:
http://www.footbag.org/reference/-/IFPA_Net_Rankings

Wim · Post by **Wim** » 23 Apr 2008 23:31

Okay thanks Ville!

Jimpenske · Post by **Jimpenske** » 24 Apr 2008 09:36

Well the freestyle ranking changes every year. It would be cool if they had some point system like they do for golf. Like you get certain amount of points for placing first. And every tournament was different. Like if you win US Open or European championships it's 10 points for first place. But winning worlds is 20 points or something. Every IFPA sanctioned event should have a point system. I think it would work well. Vasek would of course be ranked number 1 and way ahead of everyone else in points. Kind of how Tiger Woods is with golf. He's been consistently winning for years now.

Will Digges · Post by **Will Digges** » 24 Apr 2008 09:42

That's a really good idea Jim, I like the thought of that. Seeing as we have numerous types of events for footbag, different events will be worth more than others.

RawSko · Post by **RawSko** » 24 Apr 2008 10:17

I like this idea too

sen · Post by **sen** » 24 Apr 2008 10:44

How do we go about setting this up? It seems like a simple enough idea, but how do we decide which events are worth how many points? Should we go back and look at results for the past year or two, or start fresh?

I like this idea.

Senor Grommet · Post by **Senor Grommet** » 24 Apr 2008 12:12

you might try contacting Eric Wulff with your idea and a prooposal. He is the member of the net community who runs the world ranking schema used by the net community. I believe that it takes into account performance of players at IFPA sanctioned events only, and that depending on the size and quality of opponents at each event, a different number of points is awarded. There is a different world champ for mixed, for dbls, and for singles.

One caution: I get the idea that to set this program up take a LOT of work, and since frestyle is so much bigger than net, it would likely be a LOT LOT more work for whoever tries to coordinate the freestyle world ranking effort.

ville · Post by **ville** » 24 Apr 2008 12:32

Senor Grommet wrote: One caution: I get the idea that to set this program up take a LOT of work, and since frestyle is so much bigger than net, it would likely be a LOT LOT more work for whoever tries to coordinate the freestyle world ranking effort.

Exactly, the idea might sound simple, but implementing it is not. There's a fundamental problem with footbag tournaments, which already affects the net ranking. Tournaments except Worlds and maybe euros are held really isolated from each other. Meaning most of the players compete against the same small group most of the time. USA vs Europe vs Japan vs Australia for example are all separate areas with good players. Now the problem is how do you give points to different tournament from different areas without favouring one area over another. And should the ranking system reward those who are able to travel more. When you look into it, it's not that simple. But I agree that it would be a positive improvement.

Jimpenske · Post by **Jimpenske** » 24 Apr 2008 16:49

It seems like somehow it could be done through footbag.org. To be a ranking points event it has to be sanctioned by the IFPA and have official results on footbag.org. This way when your name shows up in the results it automatically adds all your ranking points together. So everyone has a number. And then it keeps track of say, the top 50 players in the world. I don't know enough about computers to make this happen. But I'm sure someone with some time could set it all up so that it runs itself.

The most points should be given to 1st place routine at Worlds. However, making the podium in each event would gain you points. US Open and European championships would have the same amount of points. Say for 1st worlds routine you get 100 points. For first in routines at the US Open or Europeans champs you get 50 points. And then for first at any other IFPA tournament you get 25 points.

So you could split the freestyle tournaments into three groups and give out the points accordingly.

-Worlds (most points)
-US Open/ European Championships (2nd most points)
-all other IFPA sanctioned events (least points)

crazylegs32 · Post by **crazylegs32** » 24 Apr 2008 18:36

There used to be 3 major sanctioned us events. East, midwest, and westerns(we can change that to funtastiks, nyj, and us open).
Add 2 or 3 for Canada, 1 for aus/nz (alternating?) And divide up europe somehow?
The way to create a ranking system is to just do it- like Lon Smith did with the record list. Your peers will respond and tell you whether the system is good or not.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 24 Apr 2008 21:23

Japan has had at least 2 major tournaments (Japanese Champs and Tokyo Shredder gathering) for 3 years running and counting. It's a bigger tournament and more consistent than NZ or Aus nationals, so it'd be nice if it got some more respect.

max · Post by **max** » 25 Apr 2008 00:16

Like with most such systems, the accuracy of the rankings will rely greatly on the need for players to travel. For example an average player that travels A LOT to IFPA sanctioned tournaments around the world will no doubt rank better than most sop players who don't usually travel far outside the borders of their home country.

And yes they have the same issue in the net rankings. So there's lots of debating around which tournaments get to be tier 1, 2 or 3 and therefore get to award points for the world rankings.

Implementing the system itself is not rocket-science as it follows well established rules. It still demands a central administrator feeding the rankings from the IFPA sanctioned events in a corresponding database (yeah that takes some time to set up but it's not a super-complex system).

spinnin · Post by **spinnin** » 25 Apr 2008 01:05

I just got an email, that you guys are discussing a project, which has already been started:) Actually it was started by me and our good lost & married friend, Schubi four years ago. Ones who don't know him, he sat a lot of judging tables in the past years.

Anyway, the ranking from the tournaments are beeing monitored through footbag.org, and will then be fed to the system, once it is ready to be official. So what you guys have been saying; it is not a hard system to come up with; the implementation is also not the hardest thing in life; but it's also not very easy. the reason for that is, because we are implementing it in fb.org, net-system, judging systems, and tournament flows. So if we were had to ONLY invent a pointing system, it would be easy; but we want to to work with the other systems of footbag, and footbag organization.

It would be hard for me to start explaining the system totally, but what is absolutely definite, we will need a lot of helping hands.

Basically each freestyler has three numbers. one is national, one is international, one is overall.

So now that the topic has come up. We are looking for people who could help in the development. this project will take a good year from now, but will last ages

Anyone who is interested, and has abilities of one or more in
- writing technial conecepts
- php & mySQL
- C-sharp
- server sided interfaces
- logical thinking

is now asked to write me a short email: [email protected]

thx
Ali

Ners · Post by **Ners** » 25 Apr 2008 08:09

Having a freestyle ranking is definitely a good idea and makes stuff like seeding much easier for any tournament. We have a national ranking working, since 2006 and it definitely helps us a lot. It is also a thing that motivates players to train harder, so that they can advance up the ladder

You can see the ranking here:

http://www.footbag.org/ifpa/groups/sedz ... 7%20r..xls

It misses the results from the last tournament, but other then that it's accurate.

Pozdrawiam
Szymon KaÅ‚wak (Ners)

spinnin · Post by **spinnin** » 25 Apr 2008 09:59

great -

these infos are great. what poland has already done; other countries must still do

who thought of it? who wrote it?

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 25 Apr 2008 10:30

As someone that doesn't really care about routines and most other competitions as much as I like sideline shred, it would be fun to devise a survey to rank shredders each year. I know, I know "we should all play for ourselves", blah blah blah. It would just be interesting to do - fun topic to debate etc.

Senor Grommet · Post by **Senor Grommet** » 25 Apr 2008 14:27

To comment on the previous posts about travel hindering the world rankings:

The fact that a player is poor and unable to travel does not in any way flaw a system that bases world ranking points on points gained at IFPA events. If players don't make it to competitive events, they cannot be allowed to receive a world ranking. They have not formally measured their skill against anyone else's in a tourmanent atmosphere, which is what a world ranking purports to do.

Ners · Post by **Ners** » 25 Apr 2008 15:22

spinnin wrote:these infos are great. what poland has already done; other countries must still do

who thought of it? who wrote it?

I don't know who put forward the idea first, but the decision was probably made by Antek Szczeniowski, Kamil Wysocki and maybe some other organizators. It was Kamil who brought it to life though, as he wrote the exel sheet and published it online. There was some discussion on our Board of Judges concerning the points percentage awarded to each tournament, but thankfully an agreement was reached

Pozdrawiam
Szymon KaÅ‚wak (Ners)

spinnin · Post by **spinnin** » 26 Apr 2008 08:55

Senor Grommet wrote:To comment on the previous posts about travel hindering the world rankings:

The fact that a player is poor and unable to travel does not in any way flaw a system that bases world ranking points on points gained at IFPA events. If players don't make it to competitive events, they cannot be allowed to receive a world ranking. They have not formally measured their skill against anyone else's in a tourmanent atmosphere, which is what a world ranking purports to do.

I know its awkward, but unfortunately there is almost no way to determine the skills of players who are not in contest, or at national events. on the other hand you could solve this through a voting system... which at the end of the day is similar to a ranking system