critique (passing along knowledge)

General footbag-related topics that don't fit elsewhere go in here.
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Rieferman
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critique (passing along knowledge)

Post by Rieferman »

I know the stigma basically seems to be "if you're really good at this sport, it's not 'cool' to come on modified and give advice"

or, "go out and play, get off the computer"

But, on another forum with people unbelievably skilled at their hobby (in this case, fine woodworking) there's a ton of giving back in terms of instruction and tips from the top guys out there. And the number of newbies and silly questions is so many more than footbag.

So, if they can do it, we can do it.

NOW.... The issue this other forum had was that people are pissy about getting true constructive criticism. So they started a process called "critique". Basically, in their world, they post a series of pictures and description of woodworking projects, and the subject line is prefixed with the word "critique". Then, the following document explains the rest (you'll have to use your imagination to see how this would apply to footbag).

I would also be challenging the top players to come on here and participate in critique threads. Modified doesn't need to suck as bad as it does - a little participation on purposeful topics can go a long way.
Read First When Requesting Project Critiques



These guidelines are the composite work of the members of the Turning Forum. They are established to promote the ongoing Learning, Skill Development and Fun for all those who would elect to participate in seeking constructive critiques of their work. Within this process there are two areas of responsibility. The first is the responsibility of the person requesting a critique(referred to as Student from this point on) and the second is the responsibility of the person giving the critique(referred to as Mentor from this point on) . Both of these individual responsibilities will be addressed here for the purpose of establishing clarity, understanding and unity of purpose.

Student Responsibility and Expectations(Your Commitment):

When you submit a project for critique enter the words "Critique Requested" in the subject line. Only those posts containing this identifier will fall under this program. This identifier will indicate that you know and understand the parameters of this process and give the Mentors the liberty to openly and honestly critique your project.

Provide a clear description of the project to include: Dimensions, Wood Type, Sanding grits used, finish used.

State any specific challenges you faced.

In the body of your request, state any artistic goal or objective or vision you had in mind for the project. Without this information the Mentor may not have a clear picture of your objective and call in question something that you intended to be a part of the project. Remember some things tend to be more subjective than objective in nature.

Provide pictures as clear as you are able to take. there should be a top view, bottom view and side view. This is not a display picture. the picture should be as close as possible and with no attempt to hide flaws in the work.

When requesting a critique be more ready to listen than to defend. If your intent is merely to display a work for comments of encouragement use the normal approach and do not ask for a critique.

Trust your Mentors, in the majority of cases those Mentors who comment will have experienced what they comment on and have experience in overcoming that obstacle. Be teachable. Always remember that there are no negatives or failures only opportunities for improvement.

Be willing to unlearn and re-learn if necessary.

Feel good that you have taken the steps to improve and develop your skill.


Mentor Responsibility and Expectations(Your Commitment):

Anyone can step into this role. You can be a student and be a mentor as well. Just as we all have things we excel in, we all have areas for improvement. Comment only on those things you know you have developed skill or knowledge in. To be credible with the Student we must have integrity.

Be Humble, remember you once were where they are.

Be Honest, You can tell someone almost anything as long as they feel that you have their best interest at heart. Holding back the truth is more hurtful than helpful. the issue is how that truth is shared.

In giving a critique, there may be multiple areas for improvement. Identify the areas but have the student focus on the one or two that will bring the greatest impact first. Don't let a student become overwhelmed with four or five areas to work on. If another Mentor has identified something, don't repeat it unless you can add more depth or a different perspective.

As a Mentor it is ok to ask a student if they are willing to accept an assignment to adjust or develop a skill.

Use the Sandwich Technique when assessing a student's work. (Start with a plus, address the area for improvement, end on a positive)

Sometimes there is more than one right answer or approach. Be flexible.

Always remember, true mentors are not those who accept the title nor those who are assigned to the position. We truely only become Mentors when those we serve choose us as Mentors.
Bob R.
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WyrmFyre
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Post by WyrmFyre »

An interesting idea.

A new subforum called Critique would be cool for this, so players can start their own thread there along the lines of For Sale or Challenges. i post a vid now and then to my blog to be critiqued, but if there were a subforum it might draw more attention.

A good idea, one id like to see, lets see if others agree
Ian Cozens
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Rieferman
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Post by Rieferman »

Thanks for commenting Ian. I thought it was interesting because I saw people post woodworking projects and receive dozens of detailed tips from master woodworkers. I was amazed. Here, I beg for anything, but since I can't hit back to back nemesis, no one gives a crap (i.e. I hear no feedback or tips except from Ken and Ian Brill)

edit: to be clear though, not always is the constructive criticism nice to hear... but it's presented in a way, and the project poster understand the ground rules going in, that it's helpful and a necessary evil. In other words, this would NOT be a "give me so many props" type of feel... it would be "gently rip my game apart and give me advice so I can get better"
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PoisonTaffy
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Post by PoisonTaffy »

I agree with Ian that a new subforum is a great solution, for many reasons.
If there's a "homework assistance" subforum, there's a place for "critique performance" subforum.

On a side note, Bob, I think that there are plenty of top notch players who participate on Modified regularly, and I observe that those that do participate tend to be more known and popular. I don't share your complaint in this regard.
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Post by WyrmFyre »

The only downside to it might be that come mid summer when the buzz that surrounds this game is at its peak, imagine how many new members could potentially be joining and how many videos of toe stalls, legovers and ATWs it would get full of.

In that respect, i suppose it could be argued that the Trick Tips section is enough to suffice.
Ian Cozens
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PoisonTaffy
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Post by PoisonTaffy »

Nobody currently posts videos on trick tips for a reason.
"Trick tips" lends itself to "I'm having trouble hitting X, any advice?"
While the critique forum would hopefully be more of a "This is my best game at the moment. Please watch the video and give pointers."
In other words, lends itself more to general advice on what to work on, style tips and opinions etc rather than specific tips for a certain trick.

Let the new forum's problem be too many newbies :) I personally have zero problem with helping people hit legover. I do that a lot in real life and on footbag.org, would be happy to do it here, too. Easier to help someone who posts a video than to someone posting "I've been playing for 3 weeks and still can't hit toe stall, what am I doing wrong". Plus nothing wrong with a bunch of videos going up that make my video look better in comparison :P
(Worst case we can say that you can't post a video for freestyle critique unless you're using freestyle gear - shoes, bag etc)
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Post by mc »

great idea, great format. Really perfect.

Subforum +1!!!
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Post by FootFungus »

Agreed. I and other surely others in my position could use something like this. Thanks for sharing.
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Post by Zac Miley »

Yeah I'm down.

I press vote wherever I'm supposed to.

Nice first post Bob.
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Post by calemccoy »

this would be cool. although, i try to do this in person at jams/tournies.
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Post by Donovon »

calemccoy wrote:i try to do this in person at jams/tournies.
+1 vote

I think this is a really good idea. Ive been inspiried to do this ever since following Cory Allen's critique thread. Ive just been a little too lax on getting some sort of memory for the video camera, or just a new camera.

I also think Cale has a good point, but i know all of us have experience being ill at ease affording to attend what jams are out there.

And personally, i think it would be really cool to see some of the "better" players post video for critique, as we all never stop learning.

~Donovon
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