Fusion - 5 adds or 6

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 28 Feb 2004 19:36

I personally think that fusion should only be five adds. I think they only reason the move is harder than a legbeater is that you have to move your leg much faster to perform the second and third dexes. I don't think that moves should get an x dex just for speed. However I've noticed that a number of people disagree with me. So I want to see what the general opinion is. I know a lot of people don't care about adds, so if this is you - you don't need to post to tell us that. I would especially like to know how many adds it would get if hit in a shred 30, because if your mom is 7, it would be worth putting in two non uniques to fit it into my shred 30 for worlds.

hacksterbator · Post by **hacksterbator** » 28 Feb 2004 20:41

i guess it kinda depends on how much of a stickler you are to x-dex. technically, there are 2 full dexes in there, so it should get it. then again, it's an easier 6 (in comparison to others). blurriest is only a 5, but it feels like a 5, you know? you don't have to bust your balls quite so much to hit it. is fusion a hard trick? yeah. are there harder 6's out there? yeah. in my books it's borderline, if it's a 5, it's a really hard 5, if it's a 6, well then it's a 6. i'm likely to say 6, but just bearly. it fits in with whirly gig as being one of the easier ones.

mc · Post by mc » 28 Feb 2004 20:52

i say 6. dex, dex, xdex, dex, del, xbd

Senor Grommet · Post by **Senor Grommet** » 28 Feb 2004 21:10

6 fusion is ONLY easy when you have a REALLY good atomic set and a REALLY good dod. If one of the two is bad, they you can hit this move.
i thinks it gets x dex and its a 6, but thats only my opinion

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 29 Feb 2004 08:42

clearly 5

Webslinger · Post by **Webslinger** » 29 Feb 2004 10:31

Fusion should be 5, not because it is not hard(it is quite hard when you are trying to hit it pretty clean), but because xdex should be canceled. Btw in shred 30 at Worlds is not counted the xdex add.

mc · Post by mc » 29 Feb 2004 11:29

edit: starting to sound like someone I don't want to...

I disagree, Erik.

I think add value of moves is an unquestionable thing. we have a set of criteria (the add system) in which there are designated footbag move elements that are acknowledged with an add. If you count XDex (is this in the official judging system yet?) then it's a 6 add move.

I think XDex is an important add, so that's why I'd count fusion as a 6. not because I associate the feel of a difficulty of a 6 add move with atomic DOD. There's no such thing as a quantifiable difficulty level for a certain amount of adds.

flash · Post by **flash** » 29 Feb 2004 11:59

Everytime I've counted shred 30 xdex was included. This includes World's 2002, and numerous other tournaments. This decision was always readily accepted. Out of all those times, I don't believe xdex has ever made a difference in the outcome.

We should probably put things like this to a vote at World's this year for what is standard in competitions. It could be as easy as "xdex? yup."
or "xdex? nah." Will it happen? Probably not.

If you hit fusion in a shred contest I add 6 to your score. It hasn't come up yet though. If I see you hit fusion cleanly in a circle I think it's a really cool move, especially when linked with other cool moves.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 29 Feb 2004 15:23

I have to agree with Matthew - if it were clearly 5 adds, I wouldn't have asked the question.

In his definition of x dex, Eric Wulff said
"Toe blurriest 6 1,2,3 (x-dex, x-dex, butter-dex)"

I would have to say that if plasma gets an x dex, I think fusion should as well.

I don't really think it's a question of the diffilculty of the move, for me it's a question of how the move feels. It doesn't have the same contortion feel that moves like atomsmasher, reactor, sumo etc. have. There isn't any hard hip twists. The only reason the move is any harder than a legbeater is speed - you need a fast atomic set and a fast double down, apart from that, it's almost entirely like a legbeater.

hacksterbator · Post by **hacksterbator** » 29 Feb 2004 16:44

to hit fusion clean is much much harder than it is to hit legbeater.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 29 Feb 2004 16:49

did you read my post? Or just the last sentence?

edit: my fusion is here http://www.footbag.org/media/303/Fusion.WMV Sorry I couldn't figure out how to save the clip in slow mo - I've looked through it though and it's clean.

ShredPirate · Post by **ShredPirate** » 01 Mar 2004 05:32

xdex was officially implemented after worlds 2001. worlds 2001 was a 'test' to see how it fixed things, and it passed. i might be mistaken. maybe it was a test at a previous tourney, like westerns or the oops jam. but either way, it's been officially used since 2001. which is longer than 80% of the forum population has been kicking.

Webslinger · Post by **Webslinger** » 01 Mar 2004 12:03

I think at Worlds 03 wasn't xdex included.
I also agree that it is not a question of difficulty, but xdex was invented because of difficulty.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 01 Mar 2004 14:52

I've given it some thought and this is why I think Fusion is only a 5 add.
The definition of x dex varies, but it's pretty much concensus that you must have two full dexes to get an x dex. The claims that fusion gets an x dex come from it having a full dex on the atomic, and then a full dex at the start of the double down. However I don't think you can seperate the dexes in a double down (or a barrage or any double dexing one movement component). A double down is not a full dex and then a half dex - it's one and a half dexes. So fusion is a full dex and then one and a half dexes - or a full dex and then two 3/4 dexes. So it doesn't have two full dexes (for it's three dexes. This is the same reason I don't think Fury should get an x dex - you do one and a half dexes and then a full dex. but you get two adds already for the one and half dexes - they count as two dex.

I hope that all makes sense (sence)!

dblthnk84 · Post by **dblthnk84** » 01 Mar 2004 15:01

but 3atw gets an x-dex add and its two and a half dexes also...
________
BMW R12

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 01 Mar 2004 15:03

Well not from me it wouldn't get an x dex...

qphox · Post by **qphox** » 01 Mar 2004 15:21

...two 0.75 dexes.

You know, that almost makes sense.

ShredStylez · Post by **ShredStylez** » 01 Mar 2004 16:09

if fusion became a six, then ur mom would become a seven which is even more ridiculous.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 01 Mar 2004 16:17

How clean are your dexes on your mom? I would have no problem with it being a seven add if there was a good reason for it to get the last add. It's definitly harder than all the other 6s I've hit. If adds were based purely on diffilculty than I think fusion should be a 6, but I think there needs to be a reason behind it. You can't just say - this move is hard, lets make it a 6 add.

ted · Post by **ted** » 01 Mar 2004 16:23

There is nothing ridiculous about 7 adds for your mom. I have a lot more respect for that than for gangsta party or montage.

modified

Fusion - 5 adds or 6

What is the add value of Fusion

Fusion - 5 adds or 6