The Sterility of Footbag

Jeremiah · Post by **Jeremiah** » 29 Mar 2004 16:17

All right, I am an amature footbag player, and I was considering getting further into it. I've been playing for about a year, and just starting to get the basic tricks down, I joined a club where a lot of really good people played and I also went to a big convention thing. Overall I've become completey disenchanted with the whole thing. There is almost no style at all, everyone does the SAME tricks, basically the SAME ways. They look really cool, and I'll bet it's fun to do, but to me it seems sort of similar to weight-lifting, in that it's impressive, but it doesn't mean anything. I think, in fact, I KNOW that footbag can be much more than this. I'm not condemning it, but I am disappointed. I know this stoner guy at my school who was really good and he could do a couple of simple tricks that he had come up with on his own, but I tell you, his feet moved like water. It was amazing to watch, although not necessarily skillful (though it seemed like it at the time, because I wasn't very good then). The guys at the club I went to were skilled, and their legs had been fine-tuned to a machinelike precision, but there was nothing there. And I don't know, maybe I am just not in touch with the sport enough to recognize style, but I've watched a bunch of videos, and the only parts that I've found really impressive are when the people throw out their own little gimmicks, between tricks, the little tricks that they just make up and aren't really on the lists on footbag.org.
In summary, I'm going to keep playing, but I'm not going to just get better and faster to be able to do the tricks that everyone else does, and gets able to do effortlessly and thoughtlessly. If itgot any doesn't have any style, it's worthless. I know that I've seen more style with just kicking then many large add tricks. I think hacky-sack has much more potential in other directions, and that are where I'm going.

dblthnk84 · Post by **dblthnk84** » 29 Mar 2004 16:22

have fun.
________
penny stock

jon · Post by **jon** » 29 Mar 2004 16:24

http://www.freestylefootbag.com/style.htm
bloughchi may be your style

and if you think people dont have different style look at:
kenny, derek v, vasek, allan, justin and tell me their styles are the same

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 29 Mar 2004 16:32

This is what I had thought at first to jerimiah. But after learning more about the sport, I began to appreciate to technicality and difficulty of each move and componnenet. However, I am not going to try to change your opinions, just have funn kicking.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 29 Mar 2004 16:32

I completely disagree with what you are saying. There is an amazing amount of variety and style in footbag. Saying that they all look the same is like saying that all music sounds the same - it's just a bunch of noises using the same 12 sounds (or more in more amature music...

)

However I think Scott Davidson once said something along the lines of "the ignorant public can't tell the difference between a pendulum and a blurry whirl"

I think the solution is that you need to watch a lot more footage - especially of different players. All the players I've seen have different style and different move selection.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 29 Mar 2004 16:36

I have a friend who thinks the same thing as you about footbag. I don't agree with either of you, but I understand where you're coming from. Footbag styles look the same to the untrained eye, but there are many subtle nuances every player has. Some people enjoy these and the game, and some don't. There's not really too much anyone here can do to change this -- something I'm sure you know as well as me. All I can advise to you is to keep playing with your club. You may not like their styles or how they play, but they know about other things besides the mechanics of footbag -- they also know about the mechanics of your body and how to take care of it. A very valuabe resource, I say. Further, playing with them will also teach you ways to develop your style -- odds are that some of them started off in the direction you're going now. :edit: (Jeremy beat me to it) What Jeremy says is true, though. I think to differentiate between moves you need to watch lots and lots of footage. Your brain actually develops to account for the fast movement you're watching. Slowly you'll be able to see the different moves individually. However, I doubt this is the case for you. It sounds like you've been playing a little while, and you're just not interested. Why post this if it sounds like you've already made up your mind, though?

Just some thoughts.

Peace

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 29 Mar 2004 16:43

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 29 Mar 2004 16:50

That's a good point about shreditas! Carol Wedemeyer has the coolest style around. I think you might appreciate her, acually, Jeremiah.

MegaFighter_X · Post by **MegaFighter_X** » 29 Mar 2004 19:11

Style comes not from the individual tricks, but the way the individual links the tricks. If you want to see a good contrast of styles, check out Sam Coclou (sorry about the name butchering) vs. Chris Pinkus vs. Chad Delahovic. They have huge tricks, but their styles are immensely different, despite the fact they shredded together.

NotHisRealName · Post by **NotHisRealName** » 30 Mar 2004 03:58

There are actually many styles out there that I don't like. I can appreciate the moves that are hit and the skill of the player - Vasek, for example... He's awesome, but I don't like to watch him play because I don't like his style. To me, Style is more important than skill.

Some of my favorite styles out there include Dan Ednie (style seems to be an issue with him and it shows), Ales Zelinka (Very mindfull of style and Form

[to those in the know]), Lon Smith (I love the ease at which he ducks and dives stuff, for example).

And then there are some intermediates that show some awesome potential, while still having excelent style. Scott Kirchner's style really stuck in my head when I was down in Melbourne. He's tall and his style is slow and controlled. Very good to watch.

To Jeremiah: Be mindfull of style. There are variations between players, and when you see a style you like, well... I'm sure you'll be hooked.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 30 Mar 2004 05:09

Jeremiah,

On many points I am in agreement with you.

I think, in fact, I KNOW that footbag can be much more than this.

I think hacky-sack has much more potential in other directions, and that are where I'm going.

You are right. This game is wide open for lots of new and different stuff, other ways of playing. I say, go for it. Play how you want, and do it well. I just hope you've go the dedication it takes, 'cause I don't thing re-inventing footbag freestyle is something that can be done over night. Good luck.

Jonathan Schneider

Jeremiah · Post by **Jeremiah** » 30 Mar 2004 10:08

Wow, you people have a lot of cool things to say. I think i'll just have to do what I do. But there was one more comment I had forgotten to make: the loss of community. When you go to shred sessions, everyone does their own thing, no one passes: they do their own set of tricks, then igve it to the next person. There's high-fives and stuff when you do something good, but there's basically no interaction, no depending on other people. But I will still contintue to play, learn new tricks, and hopefully develop mo of my own style. And you are right, there are diferences between the ways people play, but that's only a little difference, I don't think it's enough (for me) to constitute a differnet style. People walk different ways, you could call that style, but if someone did cartwheels down the hall, or walked on their hands, that would be style.

Thanks, though, I totally expected expletives.

And also : I have this other idea, if someone could somehow fuse footbag and break-dancing. (I'm sure someone's probably already thought of it, but whatever)

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 30 Mar 2004 10:21

I've heard of people breaking while kicking here and there. It's a thought.

I don't necessarily agree with what you say about community. While you're right about the game not being played as a team, it's the developement that seems to intrigue people more, I think. At my club I've met plenty of new people and the help they give me and the support and enthusiasm we give each other is what builds the community. While we may not pass, being in the same circle as certain other people for me is really inspiring! This is the same for many people. Many tightly-knit families are made through these clubs. Saying that there's a loss of community is just ignorant, frankly. Furthermore, what about modified? There's a tremendous community here -- I'm barely even part of it, and I can see that.

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 30 Mar 2004 10:27

You're just kicking with the wrong people I think.

Many of the young guys think self serving is ok. (which is total bull shit IMO) Many players don't care about shredding AND passing after a nice run. (which is too bad IMO)

But many is *not* all. Keep on the path that you have fun with, but be open to the idea that there are many types of players out there that you have not met/played with yet. You may be pleasantly surprised.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 30 Mar 2004 10:31

Zerbalicious · Post by **Zerbalicious** » 30 Mar 2004 13:05

Jeremiah, I think you are exactly the type of person this sport needs.

I've been playing footbag seriously for 9 years. Although I love footbag and think about it every day (even though I can't play anymore) recently I've been getting bored watching people kick with the exception of a few players.

The problem is this, it is much easier to imitate what's already been done than it is to create something completely original.

I think that most players these days approach footbag more like a sport than an art. My favorite players have attained a high level of both technical and artistic skill.

I am excited to see where footbag will go. It is such a young sport and it is growing so fast. The more people start taking different approaches to the game, the better. After all variety is the spice of life.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 30 Mar 2004 13:21

I havn't seen any of this stuff, but I was told once about Erik Wulff doing 'hooping' stuff. Something like that, anyways, it involved using the arms in conjunction with the legs.

If someone did cartwheels down the hall they wouldn't be walking with style, they just wouldn't be walking at all.

There is a name for (nearly, not entirely) every thing that can be done with the legs and the bag on the way up, at its peak, and on the way down. What else are you referring to exactly?

You can get a solid jog going running along with alternating toe stalls, I suppose one could toss in a round off and keep going if you really practiced. But then it isn't footbag anymore, its some mutant crossover sport, like Slamball or something.

Perhaps you just havn't invested enough time into really studying various styles (yes, this is the appropriate term) to appreciate the subtleties.

It's like how all beer and wine tastes the same at first.

calex · Post by **calex** » 30 Mar 2004 14:09

mosher wrote:I havn't seen any of this stuff, but I was told once about Erik Wulff doing 'hooping' stuff. Something like that, anyways, it involved using the arms in conjunction with the legs.

It is Scott Davidson, and I believe it is called threading.

Jeremiah · Post by **Jeremiah** » 30 Mar 2004 15:46

Ok, so I have seen plenty of videos of big footbag pros, and I have seen both a montage and a fusion, though I don't remember exactly what they are. I've seen lots of cool tricks, and lots of pros. I was impressed, but like someone said earlier, it was only tehcnical precision. Like a musician (and I mean classical) that can play with perfect precision: the performance is worthless, it means nothing, because music is meant to be interpreted as well as played well. And whoa, that sounds difficult, but I think it can be done.
And yeah, I've read up on that Blough-chi thing: that guy had some cool stuff to say, but he seemed a little WhaCKO. ANd I think that using your arms is a little divergent from what hacky-sack is: kinda like how you can't use your arms in soccer.

And about the community thing, I meant that when two or more people are actually kicking back and forth, doing tricks, but still kicking back and forth, you kind of get to know them. Some people you can kick better with, some people react in different ways to different passes, and everyone has different tricks.

In closing, I just think that people trying to climb the ladder and learn harder tricks should stop and think about why they do what they do. To get better? Or to somehow express yourself, or be unique, or I don't know, if their was a way to say it without using cliches, I would.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 30 Mar 2004 16:08

From what I hear I'm going to have to agree with Damon. It really sounds like the people you kick with just aren't fun for you to kick with. The same thing you're talking about kicking back and forth applies to shred circles as well. Some people at Rain City are much more fun for me to shred with than others, and for different reasons. For example, playing with Justin Dale and Ricky Moran might seem fun for a lot people, but it isn't always for me. They're much, much better than I am - to the point where I don't even feel like there's an end in sight (if you get what I mean). However, they can still be very inspiring to kick with. Both have tremendous styles, and Justin's a great teacher. Despite that, though, I still find it more fun to play with people like Kimi and Miles -- they're not nearly as good as Justin and Ricky, and shredding with them has let me get to know them and their styles. When we play, there's a genuine energy and driving force behind us.

Maybe you just haven't found the right people to play with.