Shooting and Nuclear

ericksonj · Post by **ericksonj** » 21 Jul 2004 08:44

Ok, so in Caros 6 add thread I had a question about how shooting gets paradox, because a couple of people had a different explanation than I currently follow. I wanted to start a new topic on it, so as not to bog down caro's thread with this small discussion.

I always thought that shooting gets paradox simply on the uptime motion... i.e. it is always a 3 add set (stepping paradox atomic). Nuclear is always a 2 add set (paradox atomic). This is because of the paradox atomic component to both.

Some people were saying that if the set involves a same side component then it does not get the paradox add. But this would mean that a paradox tap would be a 3 add move, on the same scale as a regular tap. Shouldn't paradox tap be a 4? I know for a fact that sumo(paradox atom smasher) is a 5 add move with xdex, so why would the paradox add be taken out if there is not an opposite side component involved?

I always thought that shooting butterfly was a 6 because there is 3 adds up and 3 adds down. Shooting op mirage would be a 6 because of the xdex involved in the final mirage. Shooting ss mirage would be a 5 because it does not get any xdex, but it still gets the up-time paradox add on the shoot.

Thoughts?

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 21 Jul 2004 09:01

shooting same toe= dlo thus 3 adds
shooting opposite toe= blizzard thus 4 adds
shooting same legover=miraging double switch over thus 4 adds
shooting opposite leg over=bedwetter thus 5 adds

as far as pdx tap goes....I'd give it 4 adds just because its one step harder than tap but I agree it seems pretty inconsistant.

I realy think that shooting and nucearl should be in different discusions simply because nuclear is pdx atomic while shoting is stepping rev mirging. looks similar but very diferent conceptualy and addualy....

HackyRichard · Post by **HackyRichard** » 21 Jul 2004 09:32

This the relevant section of my post from the thread about caro's awesome sooting butterfly:

Matador (pdx legbeater) is 5 adds, the nuclear set dex is completed fully in this moves (think hippy pdx illusion), as the bag travels back to the op (original setting) side, giving it the dex and the pdx add components and then the 3 component adds for the finishing butterfly.

Shooting Butterfly is the same deal, it just gets and additional add for the stepping (or it may be pogo, either way you know what I mean) component of the set.

So Nuclear (and shooting) moves where the bag travels back to the op side after the nuclear dex will always make the set receive the additional pdx add. That's fairly straight forward, it's the next part which gets interesting.

With Nuclear ss (and shooting ss) moves the nuclear dex is only partially completed (think hippy far legover dex), so the set dex doesn't get the pdx add. However if the ss move is a full dex then that move gets the pdx, because basically if you take out the nuclear set you would be performing the pdx version of the downtime move.
So nuclear ss mirage (pdx tap) is a 4 add (1 add in the set, 3 for the pdx mirage), which fits that it would be harder (how ever slight that may be) than the regular tap. This would make shooting ss mirage a 5 add move.

Hope that helps someone out there

Nate's examples highlight what I'd previously said very nicely, cheers Nate.
Addualy

I think I might have to use that one myself ... new word for the day (err night, um night/morning I think)

Nuclear is always brought up in all shooting discussions because it would seem that this is the least understood of the two subcomponents, I mean even my blind dog jack understands how stepping and blurry works and I don't even have a dog

, yet nuclear seems to be this huge mysterious enigma wrapped up in a riddle type thing that keeps reappearing every so often (as eli pointed out).

[off topic]
I was just think of the whole planting negates pdx debates of old, and it got me to thinking has anyone tried and mute nuclear ss or shooting ss moves. I was particularly think of something like nuke ss whirl, hell even mute pdx tap would look cool. Not too sure if anyone has control enough to pull smooth mute shooting ss moves, but something like mute shooting ss torque would seriously own
[/off topic]

ericksonj · Post by **ericksonj** » 21 Jul 2004 09:44

Still getting advice from Nate even when he is on the East Coast.. Thanks Nate

I was thinking about it and it makes a lot of sense to me now. Especially with Nates Shooting same toe = dlo and Shooting op toe = blizzard. Perfect way to describe it in my opinion.

Thanks to HackyRichard for explaining the paradox tap very well.

Makey sense to me now. Thanks again.

Juana · Post by **Juana** » 21 Jul 2004 11:24

Cool, thanks for clearing that up for me. I logged in this morning and don't know what I was thinking yesterday...must have been brain-fried from being at work staring at the computer all day. sorry... i totally understand where the pdx comes from and all of that I was just spacing.

HackyRichard · Post by **HackyRichard** » 21 Jul 2004 15:30

[off topic]

I logged in this morning and don't know what I was thinking yesterday...must have been brain-fried from being at work staring at the computer all day. sorry... i totally understand where the pdx comes from and all of that I was just spacing.

Yeah I know that feeling all too well, maybe we should start a support group for fellow footbaggers that go through the same thing

Mind you my brain is more dumbed down than fried, due to having to speak at the level of the customers I deal with ... I know I shouldn't be casting negative vibes especially seeing as I've just had a nice relaxing week off work before I head over to Montreal (man did you pick a worlds to miss Jane, next year I guess), but it's better than smashing up furniture or some piece of technology I might need later on

[/off topic]

Anyone have any thought's on muted nuclear/shooting ss moves, just to try and have something ontopic in my post

Juana · Post by **Juana** » 21 Jul 2004 15:36

Poor me, no world's.

<snif snif>
sight's set on Helsinki. Actually, for women's freestyle, Euros seems like the event for me to hit, even more so than World's.

Anyway, yes, back to nuclear...Nucueler dude. Is it 5(edit: o'clock) yet? ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh