che guevara?

hallucinogenious · Post by **hallucinogenious** » 18 Jan 2005 04:29

whats the deal with this guy, why does everyone like him so much , why is he so famous? wasnt he just a communist rebel?

NotHisRealName · Post by **NotHisRealName** » 18 Jan 2005 05:59

Oh, and his picture looks cool on T-shirts!

(at least it's something like that)

junkyardjew · Post by **junkyardjew** » 18 Jan 2005 07:29

a good place to start reading about che is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara (man, i love the wikipedia)

but to get you started, che guevara was a doctor who helped overthrow the government of cuba - which basically means he helped kick out the americans who were running the country.

he is so widely idolized (by actual revolutionaries, not vapid t-shirt wearing teenagers) because he is a real symbol of hope, change, and resistance against oppression. Even know, as america cracks down economically on cuba (again) Fidel is fighting back by outlawing the american dollar (again... it's only been in use in cuba for about fifteen years). Not only that, but there are programs in place in cuba that train AMERICANS to be doctors, who then come back and work in poor neighbourhoods in america. for free!

cuba has its problems (repression of dissidents being the main one) but everyone has full health coverage and medicines are very cheap, because Castro pumped money into a drug industry designed to help people. There aren't any Paxil plants in cuba, although they could make tons of cash exporting it - they make anti-influenza drugs and drugs to help fight tropical diseases.

Anyway, Che was killed by the CIA (in... africa? Maybe the congo? I can't remember) and has become a Martyr. His daughter came and spoke at my university a while back i think... i wish i'd gotten to see her... she's a doctor as well. If you can get past american propaganda, Cuba is an incredible place. Suffering under ILLEGAL (according to the UN) economic sanctions from the US for more than sixty years, repelling invasions (bay of pigs) and surviving in a post-soviet era (they were once cuba's largest trading partners). Its a remarkable template of survival and prosperity. No other south american country has done so much with so little in the face of overwhelming adversity.

Anyway, that's my little cuba essay. Hope it made sense. Now i have to study for a thermodynamics exam. Blagh.

junkyardjew · Post by **junkyardjew** » 18 Jan 2005 07:49

oh, turns out he was killed in bolivia... and the CIA maybe didn't kill him, it was US backed bolivian forces? And a CIA agent removed his hands and stole his watch after he was dead? WTF?

SergeyKozlov · Post by **SergeyKozlov** » 18 Jan 2005 08:37

Che is back.

whats the deal with this guy, why does everyone like him so much , why is he so famous?

Do You envy it?

I think many ppls love Che just like a symbol of freedom, Hope....

I would like to live during Che's time, but not in Russia

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » 18 Jan 2005 12:47

you should check out this movie called the motorcycle diaries it came out pretty recently to only like october or november or something. its about che guevera and his friend that go on a motorcycle trip from i think venezuela to the most northern point in mexico (this is pre cuban revolution). its in spanish with english subtitles. its a really cool movie.

jon · Post by **jon** » 18 Jan 2005 15:27

saw the movie, didnt know it was the guy from the "shirts" when I saw it. I dont know much about him but apparently many many people were killed under his watch and he was not the great guy that most people think he is.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 18 Jan 2005 18:28

Another movie of this subject (not Che, but revolutions in Latin America -- and a much more recent one

) is "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised." Fantastic documentary!

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 18 Jan 2005 19:05

The only reason he's famous is because he was killed by the US in a very romantic fashion.

To believe that Che has become a symbol of capitalism through shirts, stickers, posters ect is kind of a disgrace to his name. Anyone see in the news that his grand daughter is suing the company that owns the image over "mis use of his image". SUING A COMPANY IN THE NAME OF CHE.

Alright rant over, long live the revolution.

cclaudia · Post by **cclaudia** » 18 Jan 2005 20:05

funny. i just got back from cuba. che is painted onto every building and and home in havana, and he's still so locally idolized.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 18 Jan 2005 21:16

Good to hear he didn't go out like Trotsky

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » 19 Jan 2005 11:48

ya thats true dude...i never really got why they basically capitalized on his legacy. and that is good to know that people still idolize him for more then just being "that guy on those t-shirts".

SergeyKozlov · Post by **SergeyKozlov** » 19 Jan 2005 12:01

These people badly know history...........

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 23 Jan 2005 23:07

Maybe a bit dated, but i have been wondering why people love those shirts so much.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2107100

(.....)
Che presided over the Cuban Revolution's first firing squads. He founded Cuba's "labor camp" system—the system that was eventually employed to incarcerate gays, dissidents, and AIDS victims.
(....)

(....)
He was killed in Bolivia in 1967, leading a guerrilla movement that had failed to enlist a single Bolivian peasant. And yet he succeeded in inspiring tens of thousands of middle class Latin-Americans to exit the universities and organize guerrilla insurgencies of their own. And these insurgencies likewise accomplished nothing, except to bring about the death of hundreds of thousands, and to set back the cause of Latin-American democracy—a tragedy on the hugest scale.
(....)

-n

junkyardjew · Post by **junkyardjew** » 24 Jan 2005 18:20

That's an intersting article, but a couple things stood out for me. I can't really respect anyone who writes things like:

"The rebellion against reactionary Catholicism in this movie is itself an expression of reactionary Catholicism."

and

"he expressed attitudes that managed to be pro-Indian and, at the same time, pro-conquistador"

as well, he writes about the plight of Cuban dissidents, which is truly deplorable, but never mentions the american economic and political sanctions that force the majority of Cubans to rely wholly on Castro's government for every product and service imaginable. With no trade or contact with most of the hemisphere, how can dissidents support themselves and each other? It's like Chomsky says, until America can pull itself up to a base level of humanity and end the horribly hipocritical gap between their rhetoric and their actions, americans can't criticize anybody elses government.

Texta · Post by **Texta** » 25 Jan 2005 03:21

I'm a bit of a Che fan and I definitely rate The Motorcycle Diaries.

I think it's important to consider the time he was living in. Sure some of his actions would be pretty unacceptable today but the Australian Government was stealing the children of Aboriginies right through to the end of the 70s and no one really complained at the time.

I'd also look out for Anti Cuban propaganda that tries to discredit Che. Or even Cuban propaganda that tries to turn him into some kind of messiah.

However I don't think Cuba can excuse it's human rights abuses of today. My philosophy these days is very much akin to Huck Finn's at the end of his great adventure. Doing the right thing is more important than the personal consequences. So even if letting all the political prisoners out will result in the Cuban government being overthrown, I think it's a better alternative of keeping them prisoner because the Cuban Government doesn't like their opinions.

But in defence of Cuba, it's a much nicer place than Haiti. Which has had a very similar past except it didn't have a revolution and has had a lot more "support" from the USA.