When's the right time for freestyle?

professor · Post by **professor** » 14 Nov 2007 07:28

How many kicks should a person be able to do before they are ready for freestyle tricks (basic delays, 2 adds)?

I could do 250+ kicks before I discovered what footbag was, so I didn't have to think about it, but I'm teaching a girl who is getting good at kicks really fast and I wonder when the perfect time for more advanced tricks is.

EoghanMcDowell · Post by **EoghanMcDowell** » 14 Nov 2007 08:07

I voted 50-100 kicks. I think thats a good place to start. Opinion though, but that seems like the most balanced decision. I have a friend who only does kicks, and he gets upwards of a thousand every time he plays, but he never freestyles, he can do tricks like legovers and pickups and butterflies, but i think he kicked a little TO much, so keep it at a balanced state. I'd say have her get to like 150 kicks then start working on delays. Congratulations for getting another person interested in the sport, it's always cool to find new people to teach and improve with. Hope she sticks with it. But remember to have her work everything both sides. That includes basic kicks and delays. Hope this helps. Shred on.

Post by **Zac Miley** » 14 Nov 2007 08:13

I think you COULD start at 0 kicks and go straight to freestyle, but they probably would have no control. I voted 100+

I would say somewhere around 100-150

Drew · Post by **Drew** » 14 Nov 2007 09:37

100+. I feel when starting freestyle you should not only be able to have a good amount of consistant kicks, you need to be able to handle and control the bag above average people. By this I mean saving the bag from drops, solid toe kicks, a good balance and sense of location of the bag when kicking.
I'd emphasize good control of the bag

Frank_Sinatra · Post by **Frank_Sinatra** » 14 Nov 2007 10:49

I've never done 100+ kicks, and if that were a prerequisite for freestyle I would've gotten bored & quit before I got to 100+ kicks.

I think that when a person can get to 20 consistently they've demonstrated enough control to get started with freestyle. Maybe even less than 20.

But more importantly, when they get to the point where they are bored and want to try new things, I think you should let them.

Bringerofpie · Post by **Bringerofpie** » 14 Nov 2007 13:14

I started before I could even get ten kicks consistently, which may have hindered me, but I certainly don't regret it.

gMoney · Post by **gMoney** » 14 Nov 2007 13:29

I could do around 100 kicks before I started freestyling, but you can always work on kicks and stalls at the same time (not really at the same time, but overlapping) if you want to work on both. I'd say around 100 though because when you reach 100 you really have more control over the bag and you don't make as many stupid little mistakes. 100 quality kicks though

Benzilla · Post by **Benzilla** » 14 Nov 2007 15:16

I say you neeed a rough abse of 100 kicks to start from to have a degree of control.

I started hardcore freestyle after my record of 197 kicks. can't get 10 currently but i can hit the tricks i want to.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 14 Nov 2007 17:41

I think it really depends on the sitch but USUALLY I dive right in and get people started on some toe stalls after they've shown some interest and joined the hack a bit.

So I guess I would say the perfect time for learning to stall the bag is when they've shown enough interest to want to connect their feet to a bag in some way.

And I do it this way because nailing toe stalls is alot more rewarding and tangible than swinging and failing at kicking a bag. Kicks will come with practicing kicks over time, but a solid foundation of confident stalls should be poured from the outset.

I want people to get to feel that feeling of accomplishment and toe stalls are a really great place to start for that.

Mirage · Post by **Mirage** » 15 Nov 2007 10:57

Voted for 25-50.
When I discovered footbag I wouldn't have been able to go for the kicks before starting to do the tricks. I was so on fire trying to hit that ATW

.
How many kicks could you do steady before you started?
Of course it sounds reasonable to be able to do 100+ kicks before you go for the tricks but who had the patience to really do it?

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 15 Nov 2007 13:49

For someone that you suspect is going to be a natural at the sport, I voted 25-50. For one thing, I think that if you can hit that many kicks every time you try, then hitting more is just a matter of time of taking a few minutes to hit more. For another, learning to hit 50 kicks in a row shouldn't take most people that are going to be naturals at footbag too long to achieve.

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For those that aren't naturals though (like I used to try to teach my wife to play, and she just did NOT get it), I did like Mosher noted. As soon as her frustration started to build, I could tell 50 kicks wasn't ever going to happen. So she played around with simple stalls and mirages and stuff like that.

professor · Post by **professor** » 15 Nov 2007 13:51

Mirage wrote:How many kicks could you do steady before you started?

I wrote:I could do 250+ kicks before I discovered what footbag was

PegLegHolly · Post by **PegLegHolly** » 15 Nov 2007 13:54

i hated hacky sack.

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 15 Nov 2007 14:00

Holly wrote:

i hated hacky sack.

Really? I loved it. My all time favorite time of playing was with my hacky slacker friends when I first started. We kinda freestyled a teense with some funky little tricks, but mostly it was kicking and circle energy. The energy was so good that we played for hours every night the one summer >> of course, I ended up getting pretty good by the end, and moved onto "grander" things.. and then the magic was gone. Ha ha.

Actually, I still love hacking at concerts or picnics where there aren't serious players. It's so great when you make a save and the whole circle goes nuts. Plus, I can drink beer while hacking.

I'm glad I can kick as long as I want just because it's fun to participate in those things still.

Frank_Sinatra · Post by **Frank_Sinatra** » 15 Nov 2007 14:38

Rieferman wrote:Holly wrote:

i hated hacky sack.

Really? I loved it. My all time favorite time of playing was with my hacky slacker friends when I first started. We kinda freestyled a teense with some funky little tricks, but mostly it was kicking and circle energy. The energy was so good that we played for hours every night the one summer >> of course, I ended up getting pretty good by the end, and moved onto "grander" things.. and then the magic was gone. Ha ha.

Man, I feel exactly the same way.

I don't enjoy circle kicking very much any more, unless I'm kicking with really competent circle kickers or freestylers. Even then, the thrill isn't what it used to be...

The Randallizer · Post by **The Randallizer** » 15 Nov 2007 15:31

Everyone should learn to kick the bag. I believe there shouldn't be a value that someone has to reach before starting stall tricks, as everyone has a different progression and style. Someone can learn stalls and kicks at the same time and still progress fine. I think that everyone, sooner or later, needs to be able to completely control their kicks if they consider themselves freestyle footbag players. It's like not being able to flip clippers, it's cool at first but if you want to get semi-serious, you will have to learn it.

Plus, playing hack is fucking fun! Any freestyler who says they don't enjoy hacky sack needs to realized that hacky sack IS freestyle!

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 15 Nov 2007 16:05

I agree with James, and voted 100+

When you see newbs freestyling, it's so obvious which ones have good kicking skills and which don't. The beginning of learning footbag is so hard because you don't have very good control of your legs, and you'll get a lot more benefit learning to kick the bag, then you will immediately trying to do freestyle tricks.

Frank_Sinatra · Post by **Frank_Sinatra** » 16 Nov 2007 06:22

I have a question for everyone voting 100+ - what is it exactly about getting to 100 kicks that a person learns that they didn't learn at 80 kicks, or 50 kicks, or even 30 kicks? Do you have any experiences or examples of people who had to get to 100 kicks before freestyle was possible for them?

Post by **Zac Miley** » 16 Nov 2007 08:14

Frank_Sinatra wrote:I have a question for everyone voting 100+ - what is it exactly about getting to 100 kicks that a person learns that they didn't learn at 80 kicks, or 50 kicks, or even 30 kicks? Do you have any experiences or examples of people who had to get to 100 kicks before freestyle was possible for them?

Me. I still couldn't control the bag well at 50 kicks. I think that true control begins at like, 100+

Whatever, it doesn't really matter. If you're comfortable with freestyle at 0 kicks, then go for it.

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 16 Nov 2007 10:07

I couldn't kick it ten times before I started to learn toe stalls. I couldn't even kick it 5 times consistently.

I hate the idea of someone not being taught how to do a toe stall if they can't get x-many kicks. That's probably because I would have hated that when I was learning. I don't think I would have continued if someone told me I had to do improve by x-much in order to learn something else basic to try.

I was someone who got bored or really frustrated if i tried one thing for too long, so I always liked having options for stuff to try/practice. Inside kicks, toe stalls, inside stalls. If you want her to get much better with kicks at the start instead of learning them as she goes, have a kicking contest with her at the beginning and end of each session as a warm up/cool down.

When's the right time for freestyle?

How many kicks until freestyle?

When's the right time for freestyle?