Are osis and gyro clipper different tricks?

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 25 Oct 2010 12:17

Completely seriously and not a knock against Damon, but I need to ask this question:

Does anybody else out there think that osis and gyro clipper are the same move? So far, I've only seen Damon arguing this. If you think they are the same trick, please explain why.

Please vote, so I can get a sense of whether or not there's any controversy on this question or not.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 25 Oct 2010 12:22

Boy you need to read my other thread. Beat you to it.

I indeed think they are different moves separated by the uptime spin verses a downtime spin.

HOWEVER, in the spinning gyro clipper versus spinning osis, the gyro occurs downtime and is no longer distinguishable, and therefore blurs the lines and is not uniquely different than spinning osis.

Plus gyro clipper is a hideous move that should be reserved for those that can't hit a proper osis.

Need a shovel?

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 25 Oct 2010 12:35

In the double gyro clipper examples you have posted as NEW moves, you are whipping your head, not your body and never square back up with the bag. They are nothing more than peaking osis.

Your osis seem to be shoveled and your late gyro clippers are actually osis moves. Were you aware of this?

Not knocking you style, but you are one of those players that rushes through every move, so I feel like arguing proper form with you is virtually impossible given your personal style choices.

I know I suck at footbag, but I at least have the bags to admit my style is weak.

mc · Post by mc » 25 Oct 2010 12:45

in my book,

osis is caught in frigid osis position and carried through to clipper.

gyro clipper is caught after the spinning is done and there is no carrying.

This is distinguishable whether the spin is done uptime or downtime.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 25 Oct 2010 12:49

Then you MC suffer from BAD FORM. Osis is not an eclipse type move. It is not carried. If you carry it through as you say then you are doing a blind wrap.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 25 Oct 2010 12:56

Frigid osis is a style choice and still worth but 3 adds. It is used to zoom a move in the opposite direction. I have seen toooooo many of these done WRONG.

Honestly if you want to see how these moves are done properly just watch Tina Aberli or Nick. Nick shows you every bit of a move, no rush and fuss, clear distinction. Too bad we all don't hold ourselves to that high a standard. Instead we argue over slop choices.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 25 Oct 2010 13:07

FlexThis wrote:Not knocking you style, .

Except that you are. Right after this, you proceed to directly insult my style.

This poll was to see if anybody other than you thinks gyro clipper and osis are the same trick. Considering you are the only person to argue this, I wanted to see if anybody else agreed. This wasn't a personal attack, and I find it sad that you are taking it as one.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 25 Oct 2010 13:58

Damon, you aren't going to bully this topic closed by trying to start a flame war. That might work with others, but not with me.

So let me state four objective facts. I'm hoping you will read them, and when you realize they are all true, you will stop with the personal insults.

1. In the DS thread, you made the argument that gyro clipper and osis are essentially the same, especially when done midtime.
2. In that thread, and elsewhere, I haven't seen anybody else make the same argument.
3. I created this poll to see if your opinion (ie osis=gyro clipper) is widely shared, or if it isn't.
4. I have never insulted you or your style in this thread, or on the forums.

If you take a step back from this thread, read the four statements above, and realize that I'm not attacking you, maybe we can return to a normal discussion. I am legitimately curious to see if others share your opinion on this issue; hence the poll.

I encourage everybody who opened this thread to cast a vote. That way some good will come of it.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 25 Oct 2010 14:12

With an osis, I last view the bag prior to the spin and spin on the support foot into a blind catch.

With a gyro clipper I spin on the catch foot, spot the bag, plant the foot, and then get watch it to the catch on the clipper.

I think it is obvious to everyone here that those two things are identical, and can not be distinguished in any meaningful way.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 25 Oct 2010 14:16

I voted yes if we are talking about a proper osis.
Proper Osis (the one that no one does)= Gyro clipper Of course some may spin a few degrees more for gyro clip but that is inconsequential.

For all of us with bad form we are doing a different trick. (wrap from frigid)

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 25 Oct 2010 15:12

They are obviously separate moves. The only reason you could argue that they're not is based on them having the same Job's notation. I'm sure if you showed a video of multiple instances of the two tricks to people who had no knowledge of Job's they'd all call them different moves.

On the other hand, I agree with Damon on the point that it's definitely bad form to catch your osis in a frigid osis and then carry it across. I thought that being bad form was agreed upon by as many people as thought that osis and gyro clipper were different moves. Osis should involve a genuine amount of spin and the bag should be caught and set again in the same spot, and straight. Juho Marjo has the best osis form.

calemccoy · Post by **calemccoy** » 25 Oct 2010 16:08

i think they are completely different moves.

i have "bad" crank, and therefore have been forced to osis with "good" form, ie spotting on the right, turning blindly and catching on the left, then spotting it once more before the next set.

i agree that the "scoopy" or "dragging" form is bad, from an aesthetic standpoint. however, if your foot has been flat under the bag for longer than the split second that it has before setting after a "properly" formed osis, you probably have more control. so if you can, do it. just try to make it look better, i guess.

i see the same distinction between a legover and an atomic ss toe stall as i do between these two moves. obviously there is no dex with osis and gyro clipper, but the same "up" vs "down" time component remains.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 25 Oct 2010 16:24

Sorry Ken. I'll pick on form in general instead of pointing fingers. Probably would of been wise if this thread had started out NOT pointing fingers.

Below is why form matters:

For MC - This is not an osis
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOOuZDBJ ... ata_player[/youtube]

Osis or lazy gyro clipper?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPCkAAWV ... ata_player[/youtube]

Spinning osis?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VupJqBO6 ... ata_player[/youtube]

??? Looks like a sloppy late spinning gyro clipper to me ???
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdwtdZt2 ... ata_player[/youtube]

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 25 Oct 2010 16:51

FlexThis wrote:Sorry Ken. Probably would of been wise if this thread had started out NOT pointing fingers.]

Go ahead and keep on being passive aggressive. At this point you couldn't possibly look any ruder anyway.

FlexThis wrote:
Spinning osis?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VupJqBO6 ... ata_player[/youtube]

??? Looks like a sloppy late spinning gyro clipper to me ???

Does that last sentence mean you concede spinning gyro clipper exists?

If not, would you call the trick in this video a spinning osis?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpdBRlCpSdI&fmt=18[/youtube]

JoshMan01 · Post by **JoshMan01** » 25 Oct 2010 17:03

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL_R17xcoTM[/youtube]

You better let him know he's doing it wrong.

Frank_Sinatra · Post by **Frank_Sinatra** » 25 Oct 2010 17:29

First, I think I was confused and voted for the wrong option in the poll. I do think there's a difference between gyro clipper and osis, which Tsiangkun already very succintly pointed out.

Also, I tend to think of osis on a spectrum - on the one extreme you have the way many people end their symp torques - all scoop. This is not really attractive, but I'm not sure what you'd call it other than osis (except maybe "a bad osis"). On the other extreme you have a move that is very similar to gyro clipper, with no blind catch. I'm not sure I'd consider that an osis, and its also probably not a good looking gyro clipper.

To me the blind catch is what makes an osis an osis, and I think there is a small but acceptable amount of scoop that can be used before it becomes a bad osis. I can think of players who do them more scoopy than others, or even more scoopy from one trick to the next, but they still look good.

I agree that there isn't a whole lot of difference between the two in some ways. The few times I've tried doing gyro clippers it really didn't feel like I had hit a new move. But my gyro clippers are also terrible at this point, and I can definitely think of some players that make them look bad ass, and who make them look very distinct from osis. IMO its a legit move, and if people who like hitting them make them look good, then they should keep hitting them.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 25 Oct 2010 17:34

Dude Anz is incorrect. Like I said 99.9% of osis are incorrect but are accepted. I learned from Peter Irish in 97. Shoveling was clowned as lazy. I took my licks from Eric Windsor who taught me to quickly snap the clipper into place. I got clowned if I caught it behind. Those players are gone and it appears misnomers are now accepted. I strongly disagree however.

Ken I already called that move crap in the other thread. Rude or not your form is off and as an 'authority' I would think form would be of utmost concern. Instead I see you reaching for a move that is questionable at best. You could barely stand out of that.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 25 Oct 2010 17:37

There must be video of Lon doing a run of gyro clipper moves vs osis somewhere.
I think he does a great job of making it super clear, in about 10000 different t stylie ways, what the tricks can look like, without being the.

I'd call spinning gyro clipper a 540, while spinning osis is a spin (360), then an osis.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 25 Oct 2010 17:42

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAHKpV-t_04[/youtube]
Are these clean?

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 25 Oct 2010 17:45

Yes!

Are osis and gyro clipper different tricks?

Are osis and gyro clipper the same trick?

Are osis and gyro clipper different tricks?