Novice: Cutting Inside-Mesh (instead of Canvas?)

[rSSn]

Greetings footbaggers,

(Firstly, if this issue has been addressed, I ask that this thread please be deleted and a PM be sent to me by a moderator, pointing out an obvious thread I managed to overlook, where this issue had been discussed ages ago.)

I got my first pair of lavers last night, and went out to get some comfier insoles. After thoroughly scrubbing the glue-stuff left by the Adidas insoles, I proceeded to cut out the toe box. I decided to follow the advice of most all footbagging guides, that is - get rid of the canvas, not the mesh, since it's the harder stuff, and I want as thin a surface between my toes and the bag as possible...

However! When moving on to the inside of the shoe, I went all stupid and cut the mesh (outside material) instead of the canvas... Just always felt more comfortable with a harder side...

My question is, will this compromise my future progress in learning tricks and improving my game? I am mostly trying to dial-up my 1-adds right now, because I am very new to the game.

I just thought, maybe having the mesh (and not the canvas) gone makes a much thinner surface for clips etc...

What do you guys think?
As a bonus question - I like outside stalls. Would it be unwise to cut the mesh for outside as well (leaving the canvas)? I heard that it makes a 'breaking-out-of-the-shoe' feeling, but since the canvas is quite thick, I thought maybe this wouldn't be of concern.

Update: Well, I went ahead and did the canvas-outsides, everything works great so far, hoping to begin learning more from here!

Puzzled and unnerved.
P.S. Props to Matt Cross - I've been watching your videos for all sorts of stuff. Very very helpful guides mate <3

[Nitrox]

Hey and welcome to modified!

I also cut away the outside layer instead of the inside
I remember reading somewhere that the canvas is stickier than the mesh so it might be better to cut away the outside mesh layer, but you're left with cut up looking shoes
I also cut away all three surfaces, inside, outside, and toe of the mesh

They've only been that way for a month or so, so I can't really say how well they'll hold up, but so far they've been great!

[mc]

"My question is, will this compromise my future progress in learning tricks and improving my game?"

not at all.

having a super-soft, super-thin stalling surface isn't what makes you catch a footbag.

having good form, and a good, consistent cushioning motion is what makes you catch a footbag.

Someone using proper form can perform a clipper stall in army boots.

if anything, having some extremely thin surface, or some other "aide", like the bucket inside and bucket toe of modded leather g-units, will encourage *bad* form, because it will allow you to catch a footbag without good form.

glad you like the vids. Watch videos of good players and concentrate on their form. I've seen many great players (like nick laroche) hit huge moves and combos and strings etc etc, with lavers that have ONLY had the toe walls pulled back. No trimming of the walls, no removal of any inner surface.

So, don't sweat it. Play footbag.

[PoisonTaffy]

I've heard that cutting both the inside and the outside surface shortens the shoes' life or something. Don't know if that's true, as I've never done it since I hardly do outside stalls or dragons. I hope it's not as I see you already did that.

I also saw at worlds that allot of people do the Brocka mod (cutting a piece from the inside ankle area to allow an easier flexing of the ankle), tried it on an old pair and couldn't feel the difference. At worlds it looked like more mods the better.

[rSSn]

Awesome! Thanks for the encouragement from all three of you, I will try to just not worry about equipment for a while now and focus on improving my form and figuring out tricks.

You are right, equipment is secondary to the experience... This is something I've been seeing in my own game as well, as I began doing clippers in very strange Nike shoes that had 'convex' (not conveniently cut up or concave) stalling surfaces. So yeah, glad to be finally at this step!

Throughout the 12 months that took me to get from 'just hacking' (crocheted bag with plastic beans) to doing more stalls (delays) than kicks, meeting an actual footbagger (TJ in Osaka, Japan) and finally to investing into proper shoes, it's been a quite a trip!

Thank you again for the help. I hope to stick around more on this forum and absorb all the 'learning' that I can, as I haven't spotted anyone in my immediate vicinity that shreds seriously (that is, Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada). No Jedi masters around here

P.S. To Matt or anyone else who is keen on this topic: I currently have a Facile Mr. Sandbag, a Footfighter Mini (my favourite, all broken in, really small), an Abshire 32 panel bag that hasn't gotten broken in yet (most 'standard' one I'm guessing, from the size), and a couple of relics from my hacky sack days... I realize it's either brand name stuff or crocheted
Do you guys think I am missing out by not using a personalized bag made by another player here?

[HippieTom]

nah dude an abshire is definitely a personalized bag i mean he sells through this forum as well as freedom, same with footfighters they are made by awesome footbaggers for footbaggers (both of them that is haha)

so dude you arent missing out at all, once you improve in your game you may decide you would like a bag that is bigger/smaller or heavier/lighter and want to customize that or the colors or the pattern etc. but until then and even if that does happen, those bags you already have are tried and true bags

abshires rule and considering the recommendation footfighter had from Blitz (Elli Piltz) they are both rad+i love my footfighter every bit as much as any customs ive made for myself
:]

[rSSn]

Thanks a lot for the feedback Tom! It's reassuring to know that I'm taking steps in the right direction so far. Gonna work on breaking in the lavers and abshire with some drills tonight.

I'm also starting to think about laces - is there a detriment to the form and performance of the shoe if I were to replace the standard laver laces with thicker ones?

I went to a local FootLocker and they have some decent laces that are not too thick but definitely a step up for me... Just always felt more comfy with thicker ones, and was wondering if any of the experienced players use other types of laces. Most importantly, I am curious whether lace customization tends to contribute to a quicker destruction of the shoe, in anyone's experience?

I noticed that some web guides, for example the one found on footbagshop.com state something to the effect of - "Invest in laces that aren’t so long – why do they make them so long anyway?" Has anyone in the community actually measured the laver shoelaces, I was wondering if we have a specific length that I should be looking for (in inches or centimeters)?

And, a final question - I noticed some people (big surprise, Matt Cross again ) post some interesting items in the equipment forum, such as the Rod Laver bag (as in, a bag for carrying stuff). Do you guys have any pieces of equipment you'd recommend finding, just to keep my practice regular and rigorous? For example, I still don't have a proper sports bag, or backpack to haul my stuff around, just a little hippie pouch for all the footbags. Knowing the amount of equipment (shoes, short shorts, maybe shirt, bags?) required, I wouldn't need a huge hockey bag, mostly likely... Any creative input would be appreciated.

Cheers!

[HippieTom]

i always replace my laces it really does nothing for or against the shoe except leaving less length to tie up, and ive noticed that laver laces tend to come untied easily so its up to you on that matter, it honestly wont hurt the shoe in any way they are just laces...
they make them long enough for standard lacing style but since you lace your footbag shoes different the regular and go through less holes you use less length therefore the laces are the perfect length if you dont play footbag haha
just buy a pair and lace your shoes how you want them, tie them tight once with the laces then trim the laces of excess length and tie little knots at each end

you can always just use a backpack for the equipment if you really need to but thats a personal question i just use a bag sent to me by a college i may be interested in, you know those little backpack things that only have one pocket and are really thin and close with a drawstring haha

[rSSn]

Thanks for the pro tip Tom, gonna see if I can get a pair of nice laces tomorrow and trim up the excess.

Yeah, those one-compartment bags are cool, but actually I was thinking of getting something that can go over one shoulder, since I usually have a backpack with me for class.

Anyways, kind regards and gratitude again, I had my first 'burn-in' session today with the shoes and bags, I hit x5 consecutive clips with my left leg for the first time (can only do x1 with the right at the moment, hard to balance). For kicking, I hit about 20-30 alternating kicks in a row successfully, trying to find the sweet spot on the lavers+feet for that.

Feeling pretty vibed and looking forward to more, I set an hour per day so far to do footbag, just to keep things a little more disciplined and improvement-oriented.

Peace.

[mc]

hey,

I always trim my laces the same way.

I lace my shoe so that it will be just right for footbag.

Then, I put my foot in, tighten it up (but not OVERtight), but I don't tie it!

after tightening, I take the lace that I would use to tie, and I pull it to the tip of the toe of the shoe. Then, I cut it, so the tie-able length is the distance from the top eyelet to the tip of the toe. Then, I use a lighter to burn-seal the laces so they don't unravel.

This makes footbag laces that are the perfect length for footbag.

Some players keep the super-long laces and just cram them in the side of their shoe. I have never liked this approach because of the way it feels and because of the way it fails (when the laces come out).

As for a bag,

I just buy the Rod Laver bags as a fetish item, so to speak. I have a small black woman's purse with the Rod Laver insignia on it. I don't even put my footbag stuff in my white bag. I put my footbag stuff in a crappy old pleather bag that I got at the salvation army. I wouldn't want to stink up my nice white laver bag... Although, I got it used, and seriously, it's got a bit of a stink to it anyway.

Keep training! Good job on the hour a day. Concentrate on making your form on your flip side the same as that on your strong side.

[rSSn]

Update: Today I finally picked up the last few items I had been looking for, a decent sports bag for carrying shoes/footbags/clothes/etc. and some thicker laces. They work great!

Actually I was worried that 45" (the only size available for the laces I wanted to get) would be too short, but they end exactly at a spot where I would've clipped the stock ones, at least with the current lacing setup (for which I am grateful to Guydro and photos of his modded kicks).

Here is a picture of how it all adds up together (sorry for poor quality):


Yep, I hope to continue training tonight (2nd day now), feeling some soreness around the hips, but that is because I haven't properly kicked any footbags for several months...

Hoping to develop a decent stretching routine and work it out. The shoes are real good so far! Thanks for the advice Matt, I will keep trying to balance out both of my clips and other delays, so that the left leg/foot is not overused at the expense of the right.

Cheers!

[KBizzle]

Wow you took the mesh off those? It looks really good! You can't even tell you cut them. What did you use to do it? Mine look like total shit lol.

Good luck with your footbagging too

[rSSn]

Thanks for the encouragement Kyle, I am hoping to figure my way through the basics in the coming days/weeks.

As for the mesh-cutting, I used Matt's advice about sticking a butter-knife in there and shifting it around gradually to separate the two layers. Once that was done, I carefully began to trim the mesh off with manicure-scissors (those little ones used for nails or whatever else). Once in a while I would also use an X-Acto knife to slice an odd thread or two.

But first and foremost, I did what a lot of others on modified.in said: soaking the lavers briefly in hot water to get the glue between the mesh and canvas weakened/dissolved. It took a long time, so an 'uglier' mod may be best if you don't have the patience to stay up until 4AM to finish the job (which is exactly what happened to me that night, but there's a first time for everything).

The insoles were hell to do... I used a butter-knife to scrape off most ALL of that crap, then soaked the lavers in hot water, then scraped more until it was all gone and the custom insoles could be placed in there.

Anyways, I feel it's been a job well done for a first try.

A blunt Butter knife does a lot of cool stuff for mods apparently... Ended up being very useful.

[KBizzle]

Yeah the hot water definitely does wonders. I used that method on my toe area, after I already butchered the insides of mine lol.

The best advice I can give you for learning the basics is remember to be both sided. If you feel like most of your tricks are on one side, even when just kicking, try to work even more on the opposite side until you have no preference. This will help you a lot once you start going for bigger things

[rSSn]

Update:

Today was probably the most enjoyable footbag session I've ever had (and my second one with proper Lavers on). I was able to hit 60 alternating inside-kicks, about 20 alternating inside stalls, about 8 alternating outside stalls, and a whole bunch of really smoothly-transitioning toe stalls, most of which had a consistent and fast-paced magic hop in between. I am trying to carefully imitate the form that I've observed from other players on video.

At this point, there are still no dex moves or alternating clips, although I still was able to pull off 5 consecutive clippers with my left leg, while trying to set the bag as high as my neck/head when performing each. So that's been cool - I feel like it's the first time I'm getting some control going on.

Also, as predicted, the shoelace-change worked perfectly. By having thicker/smoother laces I was able to avoid the 'clench' that I felt with stock laces, when tying them tight.

Anyways, thank you everyone for your support and advice. When I finished the two-hour (lol, so much for one-hour a day, getting hooked...) session I thought of all the people on modified who encouraged me so far in the last several days. You guys are awesome!

I realized that I want to play this game again and again. It feels very rewarding to know that I'm actually adjusting, learning new things, and hopefully working to improve my form. After stretching and about an hour into it, I had this awesome vibe about the game, like I'm finally getting it - why it's fun to just kick it. I hope to experience that again tomorrow

[mc]

These last few posts you've made are appropriate for a footblog. This thread / section is appropriate for information about shoe modification, not your sessions.

can you dig it?

I knew that you could.

[M4rQu5]

-snip-

[RipWalker]

Definitely dredged this one up from the annals of history, eh Ann? Shoes did look good... last February. I wonder how they look now. Good tips in reading through all of the posts, that's for sure.

[rSSn]

Thank you for the attention
Here you go guys


I'm ripping it up lately, finally getting my dexes and toe-related things improved. Still kind of a noob, but progressing in places I felt I couldn't before.

Shoes are super ghetto now (no more insoles, did a Brocka mod too!!!).

Cheers

[Frank_Sinatra]

Topic moved to bags & equipment - Frank_S