DIVISION 2 COMPETITION # 1 - POLL CLOSED! COMMENT NOW!

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 07 Nov 2004 18:25

Is it at all possible for somebody to put Seath`s sick 3 into wmv or mpg format? It`s kinda frustrating that I saw all the others, yet cannot vote.

I also tend to agree (based on what I saw) that the level for intermediate is a little low. I was hoping for something more like 4-5-4, or harder 4-4-4 links. Like Brad, I felt that intermediate and Open had very clear winners even after a single viewing. I still made a point to re-watch all the vids multiple times though before reaching a decision.

Posi-Cole · Post by **Posi-Cole** » 07 Nov 2004 19:38

So in conclusion ..

Intermediates aren't good enough.
Open aren't good enough.
Novice are too good.

It sure is a tough crowd to please

As an aside... I think people are missing the point ... It's not so much about whether the division is called Open, Intermediate, or Novice, or whatever. I think it matters most that the combos fit well with each other as far as skill level.

I could call the divisions red 65, cow bells and orange moon, and it would be fine as long as the videos in them were of similar skill. I think people are getting way too caught up on what they 'expect' from a certain skill group.

As far as there being a clear winner for some in the groups, that is really uncontrollable ... I can't exactly say "Ummm, no.. your video is better than everyone elses, can you send in something easier please?"

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » 07 Nov 2004 19:52

Why not do away with the different skill levels. I would much rather say I got 43rd place overall than say I got 1st place in the division for least skilled players. It would make things much easier and no one could possibly sandbag. Wouldn't it make more sense to see how you stack up against everyone instead of just people at your level?

Posi-Cole · Post by **Posi-Cole** » 07 Nov 2004 19:58

Johnny wrote:Why not do away with the different skill levels. I would much rather say I got 43rd place overall than say I got 1st place in the division for least skilled players. It would make things much easier and no one could possibly sandbag. Wouldn't it make more sense to see how you stack up against everyone instead of just people at your level?

No, because if people voted truthfully you'd have about 5 people with votes ... or basically just the number of guys with 'open' caliber sick 3's, and everyone else would be tied with 0 votes.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 07 Nov 2004 20:09

what about a selection panel of some experienced footbaggers - people like Brad Kaplan (as a random example - I don't know if he'd want to do this or not) - who could watch the vids and classify them into a particular division - People can maybe nominate what level they want to compete in and if this conflicts with what the panel decides - they can be sent a message saying "Sorry Jorden but you're not a novice - we've decided to put your combo in open instead - is this ok with you or would you rather not compete?"

Posi-Cole · Post by **Posi-Cole** » 07 Nov 2004 20:20

Jeremy wrote:what about a selection panel of some experienced footbaggers - people like Brad Kaplan (as a random example - I don't know if he'd want to do this or not) - who could watch the vids and classify them into a particular division - People can maybe nominate what level they want to compete in and if this conflicts with what the panel decides - they can be sent a message saying "Sorry Jorden but you're not a novice - we've decided to put your combo in open instead - is this ok with you or would you rather not compete?"

Well, that is part of my job as moderator as far as I'm concerned. I may not have the experience of Brad, but I have been around footbag for a while, and have a fairly good knowledge of what category a combo should fall under. A couple of the people in this rounds of competition told me to pick the group for them , because they weren't sure, and I think my decisions were accurate, COMPARED to the rest of the videos in that particular division.

Granted, the 'traditional' definition of a novice may be someone who is linking 2's, but if we don't get any videos like that, it seems trivial to say that "Novice should be linking 2's! Everyone's sandbagging!". Also a consideration is that a lot of these people sending in videos probably have never been to a tournament, or seen a sick 3 competition, and really have no true idea of what a novice, intermediate and open sick 3 are supposed to look like. In truth, I'm sure not many of us know exactly, because there are very few tournaments that I know of that even run intermediate sick 3's, much less novice ones.

In total though I'm just trying to A) in most cases put the people in what skill level they choose to be in, unless it's definitely not the right one, and B) try to make sure all the videos in that skill level are of similar caliber.

I think too many people are thinking that the words Novice, Intermediate and Open NEED to mean specific things, like "Oh, when I went to such and such tournament, a novice could do this and that, and if you could do that you were intermediate... etc etc". Really though I think they should just be viewed as different groupings of videos within MODIFIED, not the footbag community as a whole.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 07 Nov 2004 20:52

ok fair call!!

Perhaps we could change the names of the divisions to like Div 1, Div 2, etc - leaving the way open for more divisions and not making people get confused with the quality of those divisions in tournaments!

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 07 Nov 2004 21:56

Yea I agree, away with the open, intermediate, and novice names. Lets use different names for the different divisions. I suggest red 65, cow bells and orange moon.

But seriously we should have different names

wolfpac444 · Post by **wolfpac444** » 07 Nov 2004 22:22

I think the best idea would be to have an "overall leader board as well", but rank the votes in the higher divisions in a way such that one would want to enter the appropriate division.

max · Post by **max** » 08 Nov 2004 01:26

I think that you just need to wait a couple of comps and the divisions will set themselves. We might say for exmaple "Hey [insert name here], you've already won the intermediate sick3 twice in a row! I (or we) think it's time you went to open category, so that's where we placed your combo!"

This happens in non-online comps all the time!

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 08 Nov 2004 10:25

max wrote:I think that you just need to wait a couple of comps and the divisions will set themselves. We might say for exmaple "Hey [insert name here], you've already won the intermediate sick3 twice in a row! I (or we) think it's time you went to open category, so that's where we placed your combo!"

This happens in non-online comps all the time!

Yes!! and while you're at it change the division names to generic names to avoid confusion!

habitat · Post by **habitat** » 08 Nov 2004 13:10

C-Fan wrote:Is it at all possible for somebody to put Seath`s sick 3 into wmv or mpg format? It`s kinda frustrating that I saw all the others, yet cannot vote.

I will for sure when I get home from school

Posi-Cole · Post by **Posi-Cole** » 09 Nov 2004 10:47

<B>NOTE: THIS POLL WILL BE CLOSING ON NOVEMBER 9th AT 10 pm EASTERN! IF YOU HAVEN"T ALREADY VOTED, PLEASE DO SO!</b>

Posi-Cole · Post by **Posi-Cole** » 09 Nov 2004 19:12

Alright, the first intermediate competition is over!

Please feel free to discuss any of the combos now, say who you voted for, why you voted that way, or any other random things you just can't wait to get out.

Do you feel the winner deserved the win? What combo did you really like but didn't vote for? Throw out all your props and all that jazz now folks!

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 09 Nov 2004 19:40

would it be possible to see the final scores - or is it too late for that.

I think Kevin 1st, Victor 2nd and Cole 3rd - maybe Seath 4th, Rory 5th.

Was that everybody? I feel like I'm missing someone...?

Personally I found it hard to decide out of Cole and Kevin. I went for Cole in the end because I thought he had way better variety and I think it's harder to hit 3 different tricks than three tricks almost the same. I didn't like Victor's so much because it was more like a sick 2 with a bail at the end - ie the last move was too easy. Seath's combo seemed very easy although I've never played with a traffic cone on my head - so I don't know for sure. Rory's combo was ok - but just a little unimaginative. blur>dimwalk>ripwalk is a very standard kind of combo - also the moves are pretty similar - especially dimwalk and ripwalk.

Posi-Cole · Post by **Posi-Cole** » 09 Nov 2004 19:43

Jeremy wrote:would it be possible to see the final scores - or is it too late for that.

Check the first post.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 09 Nov 2004 19:47

Perhaps we could have a leaderboard topic - which was where the votes would take place and the results be recorded - but no posts - and a discussion topic where we discuss each round - so that things don't get too confusing.

qphox · Post by **qphox** » 09 Nov 2004 21:18

I voted for Rory because I know how hard that combo is for him.

I thought Cole's duck could have been tighter. It was the first thing I noticed when I watched it for the first time. *shrug* If it was there, I'd probably have voted his way.

That said, I'm still surprised that I won. I kind of agree with what Jeremy said, with the variety of concepts. I'm going to try more for that next time.

Also, I agree with Jeremy on Viktor's final move. If it'd been swirled, that would've been so pimp.

KronoKicker · Post by **KronoKicker** » 09 Nov 2004 21:18

I had trouble deciding on the top 3, I liked Coles, Victor, and Kevins.

Cole's was nice all around, nice variety, nice difficulty, looked pretty.
- only thing that stopped me from voting for him was the butterfly looked a lil pulled and the duck was a lil off.

Kevins was unique, looked pretty, was clean, but seemed too easy.

Victors was unique, looked nice, nice links, and looked clean to me. Victor got my vote this time, but not by much.

Posi-Cole · Post by **Posi-Cole** » 09 Nov 2004 21:21

Funny you guys mentioned the duck in my osis, because when I did the combo, the duck didn't feel very clean, but when I watched the video, I thought it looked a lot cleaner on the video than it had felt.

Guess I wasn't fooling you guys though.

Good reviews guys .. Keep 'em coming.