Abortion

tuomoruutufan · Post by **tuomoruutufan** » 11 May 2005 08:59

My 2 cents on abortion

IMO

Sanctity of life is BULLSHIT. We kill everything the only things we feel bad about are the cute things we kill and when someone kills something that is really cute or something we associate the natural hormonal feeling of love with we through in prison.

This is not a fact of what is right or how sad it is this limiting are numbers we have no natural predator with the exception of ourselves and natural disasters. Im not saying we should go out and kill everyone and everything for the sake of mother nature im just stating it as a fact of its underline purpose.

People want to have sex but dont want to have kids so are great doctors try and invent ways to help this situation only to be protested against by Extreme Christian MANIACS because THEIR religion disagrees with something they all assume is abortion IE morning after pill When if they would ever read anything besides there fucking bible they would now morning after pill IS NOT ABORTION. morning after pill is the same chemical sturcture as the common birth control just at a higher dose to work quickly in a short period of time. BUT no the christian extremest A fucking retards and want to ignore the facts.

Making abortion ilegal is the worst idea ever. Give a woman the right to do as she wish to her own body. Is it murder? yeah but who cares murder is in our nature when there is something we dont like we kill it, throw it away, burn it, hide it the only difference is to many people in this country believe what some book says instead of following there natural instict witch is to kill to survive.

Stop being pussys and deal with the fact that murder and death will always be are part of our existence, It is a natural instict wether its killing an unborn fetus, and inocent person, or and insect in your house, a deer, a cow, It is all death it is all murder we just think were better than it and try to justify its purpose or decide what murder is acceptable and what murder is not. whatever your opinion is murder isnt going anywhere.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 11 May 2005 09:24

I just remembered a funny story about abortion.

My brother does a lot of debating things and one of those is called Youth Parliament where a bunch of young people go to parliament and pretend to be politicians. They write some bills and some people argue for the bill while others argue against it. You have to argue on party lines - so if you're opposing the bill you have to argue against it.

Anyway the first year my brother went they had a bill on abortion. One of the girls argueing against abortion (I don't know if this was for or against the bill) started crying over it. Hmm. Pretending to be a politician. Having to follow party lines. Anyway my brother and I thought it was a cool story and the following year both of us were in a team together and when we proposed our three different subjects - we set the goal of the most controversial topic we could think of (We had something anti religion and something about gay people being allowed to adopt and a silly option) - of course the organisers chose our silly option - that sprouts be compulsoary in all schools. Actually it was a good bill and I think it should have passed but it didn't. Hmm this story has no punch line. Oh yeah and then, right when our bill got defeated I found $10, just on the floor in the Tasmanian Parliament House building!

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 11 May 2005 10:21

Thought I'd chime in with a new idea for record keeping with regard to abortions.

Every doctor who performs an abortion must keep a form on file for 10, or more years.

That form must have the patients name and age, and the date of the abortion on it.

Those forms may be inspected by law enforcement agencies at any time.

(this could be used to perhaps prevent schools in the future, from sending school busses full of pregnant girls to get abortions without parents knowledge).

Of course, keeping such records means the risk exists that a zealous theocracy,sometime in the future ........could go through the registry and imprison(or worse) every doctor and patient.

I propose such record keeping because it is required for firearm purchases in most states.

And if we are required to keep such documentation while exercising our most precious right, then surely it would be logical to well-document this dangerous medical procedure(which is not a right guaranteed in any document) as well.

Patients must be protected, and this could be a tool for them to sue in the future for physical and/or mental harm caused by this dangerous medical procedure.

Clearly, nobody should object to placing "Big Abortion" in a position to be sued a million times.

-n

tuomoruutufan · Post by **tuomoruutufan** » 11 May 2005 13:57

This country drives me fucking insane. So many people sueing whining bitching moaning and complaining about all this shit thats NON OF THERE FUCKING BUSINESS

Its very simple:

IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IN ABORTIONS DONT FUCKING HAVE ANY AND MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS

why is that such a hard concept to grasp. How is some stranger getting an abortion gonna hurt or effect you. IT WONT. If there is something that you dont like that will have a direct impact on the way you live your life (i.e. getting shot by a gun because of bad gun control) then feel free bitch all you want.

Be proud of the fact that you yourself would never get an abortion and you find it imoral and disgusting thats fine im not trying to change your mind im just saying THATS YOU that is not the way 16 year old sally who got druged and raped by a frat boy FEELS.

Mind your own business live life the way you choose and if it doesnt concern you or harm you SHUT THE FUCK UP.

I understand why people feel the way they do about abortions i just wish they could understand that abortion is an option if they hate it dont do it. nobody is trying to abort your child so why do you care so much. stop imposing your morals and religions on us. This is a free country and i dont see how voluntary abortion AT ANY STAGE affects anybody outside of the mother and father of the baby. ITS THERE FUCKING DECISION IT DOESNT CONCERN YOU.

professor · Post by **professor** » 11 May 2005 14:49

Directed towards Shawn's post:

Most people who don't believe in abortion, feel that abortion is murder.

So, would you just sit back and let someone murder another person because it "doesn't concern you". "You're not getting hurt, so what does it matter?". No, you would try and stop the murderer or help the potential victim in some way. So I don't think you should go all postal because some people feel that abortion is wrong and what to change it.

And if you're gonna yell about something, be consistent. You are telling people to stop complaining about something that doesn't effect them, while you are complaining about the people complaining. Does people moaning and complaining (as you put it) about abortion harm you in any way??? No, so you should take your own advice.

tuomoruutufan · Post by **tuomoruutufan** » 11 May 2005 17:29

like stated in previous post the morning after pill is mearly imposible to get over the counter becuase of religous dumb ass who think its abortion when its not.

My gf realized she forgot her pill on the second night after unprotected sex. the 3rd day (the last day the morning after pill is affective) was a sunday hence Plan parenthood was closed and the morning after pill was unavailable.

So yes iam complaining cause these religious morons Who believe There church leader/father instead of believing in scientific facts. They have prevented the morning after pill from being over the counter leading to more accidents and more unwanted pregnancies oh and guess what im sure alot of abortions would have been avoided if the morning after pill was sold at walgreens. BUT NO IT FUCKING WASNT AND SO YES THERE BITCHING DOES AFFECT US ALL.

Yes you dont like it and you want to stop but its not your business theres alot of things people do that i dont like but they are like that for a reason all you anti abortion people look at things from one angle and thats your own you could give two shits why people have abortions.

Keep your opinions keep bitching about BUT STOP FUCKING WITH OTHER PEOPLES LIVES mind your own business live your own life.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 11 May 2005 17:36

if religious types bitching irritates you, ignore it, and focus on protecting yourself. like someone said earlier, whether its right or wrong, the religious types find abortion (or the morning after pill) to be abortion, and no one who thinks murder is being committed is going to sit back and ignore it. so, thats not going to change anytime soon. so, i recommend instead of doing your own share of bitching, try using protection for yourself, reminding your girlfriend to take the pill...take care of yourself.

BrianP · Post by **BrianP** » 11 May 2005 18:03

Shawn, the idea that everyone can think whatever they want but not act on their thoughts is paradoxical. Lets say I have two linked beliefs: number one, that a joined sperm and egg is as much of a life as say, a three year old child; and two, that murder is a crime which should have legal consequences. Due to these two beliefs, it is impossible for me to keep my opinion about abortion to myself, as in doing so I am violating my beliefs. As I stated in my previous post, we all have to put up with holds on our freedom in order to freedom for others possible. Men who lust after prepubecent boys form groups (ie MABLA, the man and boy love association) to discuss their plight, and many of them honestly believe that sex with small children should be legal, and that we (the majority) should mind our own buisness and go on about our lives while they do their own thing. This may seem ridiculous to you, but to them it is probably no different than abortion is to you. And to many christian conservatives, abortion is just as henious a crime as child molestation or conventionally concieved murder.
You don't have to agree, but if you like freedom of speech and want to keep the country as democratic as possible, you have to let people give their opinons and try to get others to side with them. Also, I know this is a place to discuss heated issues that deal with a lot of emotion, but it helps the discussion a lot if we can keep from letting the emotions take over our posts. Venting our anger and frustration does not help facilitate discuss as much as it facilitates others with contrary opinons anger and frustration. I am very liberal, but looking at the viewpoints of others with as little prior contempt as possible helps me understand their viewpoints and the issues better. It also helps me convince others of my point of view, which does a lot more for my cause than if I got pissed off and started yelling at them.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 11 May 2005 18:07

My question to pro-life posters on this forum is this:

Do you think that making abortion illegal will stop people from having abortions?

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 11 May 2005 18:10

C-Fan wrote:My question to pro-life posters on this forum is this:

Do you think that making abortion illegal will stop people from having abortions?

by this logic, rape and robbery should be made legal. it would do the same thing other laws do...decrease the offenders and punish those who would still do the crime.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 11 May 2005 21:19

I think Ken's question is a really tough question and relates much further than abortion. It really leads onto questions like - what is the point of law?

If the law makers think some particular action is wrong - should they look for the option that will lessen the impact of that action the most - or should they outlaw it and punish those who still participate in the illegal action? The law makers can't be responsible for other peoples actions - if they choose to break the law - it's not the fault of the law makers. But equally the law makers can't control other peoples actions and if they are too make laws for society perhaps they should be making laws that have the greatest benifet for society, rather than divisive laws that seperate people into good and bad.

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 11 May 2005 23:41

Side note- opinion in general: when someone swears less in a discussion, they have to find words that actually describe their thoughts/feelings. Because of that, their argument usually sounds more intelligent/informed, the person is usually better listened to, and the person is less likely to have others just mindlessly swear back. And a cause worth getting upset about is worth restraining yourself for.

Anyway...

tuomoruutufan wrote:If there is something that you dont like that will have a direct impact on the way you live your life (i.e. getting shot by a gun because of bad gun control) then feel free bitch all you want.

I disagree. If I think something is immoral and is going on, I’m going to fight against it. If someone thinks that abortion is immoral I might hold their opinion against them, but not their determination to defend something which they believe is moral (making abortion illegal).

tuomoruutufan wrote:like stated in previous post the morning after pill is mearly imposible to get over the counter becuase of religous dumb ass who think its abortion when its not.
…
So yes iam complaining cause these religious morons Who believe There church leader/father instead of believing in scientific facts. They have prevented the morning after pill from being over the counter leading to more accidents and more unwanted pregnancies oh and guess what im sure alot of abortions would have been avoided if the morning after pill was sold at walgreens. BUT NO IT FUCKING WASNT AND SO YES THERE BITCHING DOES AFFECT US ALL. .

It's also not an over the counter drug because it would be unhealthy for women to use it in place of birth control which is what would happen. If you want to fight for something to be over the counter (O.T.C.), why not first argue for birth control pills, patches, or rings to be available in drug stores? The patches and rings only need to be changed once a week so it’s less likely that the woman will get pregnant because she forgot to take her pill. Men can decide if they want to buy a condom, yet women can't run in the store and just pick up some more birth control without a prescription. If women had more control over our own bodies in the first place we would be able to purchase OTC birth control. It is very possible that abortion would be an issue we wouldn’t need to worry about nearly as much and we do now. If more people in the country were upset about it, more people would be out there lobbying to make it possible to change the way things are. Don’t just blame religious figures, it’s everyone’s fault that’s not actively doing something about it.
_______________
Emily Kulczyk

"I am not trying to change people. All I want to do is change the world in which they live." - B.F. Skinner

Splint · Post by **Splint** » 12 May 2005 01:51

Several people have made comments in this and many other topics bitching and complaining about one thing or another (myself included) regarding laws that are passed or repealed and the right-wing neo-cons do this and the left-wing tree huggers doing that and oh I don't want their laws to affect me...yada yada yada.

Here's a simple Pro-active solution for all of those people who complain that their democratic government doesn't do what they want. Write a letter. Write an open letter to your representatives in local, regional, and federal offices and mail it to them. Tell them how you feel. Make it well thought out and well reasoned. Believe it or not they do take into consideration what their constituants want because they want to get re-elected and you re-elect them. Sending in a mass letter with "move-on" doesn't count. Then you're just another one of "Ben and Jerry's" idiot cronies.

Seriously, if an issue like the legality or illegality of Abortion is SO important then write to your government.

(For those living in countries with Communist or Dictatorial Regimes, please skip this post. I don't want your blood on my typing fingers.)

footbinc · Post by **footbinc** » 12 May 2005 07:23

Canada (if i remember correctly) passed a law not too long ago (last 3 months) allowing the morning after to be sold starting this year in pharmacies.

Come to Canada (no pun intended) Fuck all you want!

Just be prepared for the side effects...

Guest_2 · Post by **Guest_2** » 12 May 2005 22:08

Moxie wrote:If you want to fight for something to be over the counter (O.T.C.), why not first argue for birth control pills, patches, or rings to be available in drug stores? The patches and rings only need to be changed once a week so it’s less likely that the woman will get pregnant because she forgot to take her pill. Men can decide if they want to buy a condom, yet women can't run in the store and just pick up some more birth control without a prescription. If women had more control over our own bodies in the first place we would be able to purchase OTC birth control. It is very possible that abortion would be an issue we wouldn’t need to worry about nearly as much and we do now. If more people in the country were upset about it, more people would be out there lobbying to make it possible to change the way things are. Don’t just blame religious figures, it’s everyone’s fault that’s not actively doing something about it.
_______________
Emily Kulczyk

"I am not trying to change people. All I want to do is change the world in which they live." - B.F. Skinner

You can't buy bc pills because they contain hormones. Women can run to the store and pick up a female condom; and why can't she run to the store to pick up a male condom?

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 13 May 2005 01:16

TheVindicator wrote:You can't buy bc pills because they contain hormones.

Good point, maybe I should have said something like “If you want to fight to gain easier access to something , maybe it should be birth control because blah blah…”

TheVindicator wrote:...and why can't she run to the store to pick up a male condom?

I have guy friends who talk about how they hate wearing condoms. Some say they won't even use them. Plus, when a woman relies on the man for providing or just wearing a condom, it is giving him the power over if she gets pregnant or not.
______________
Emily Kulczyk

"... Death is the essential condition of life, not an evil." --Charlotte Perkins Gilman

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 13 May 2005 06:39

Shawn, it's really hard to read your posts, I think you had something like 2 periods in your first post on this page.

I think Ken's question is a really tough question and relates much further than abortion. It really leads onto questions like - what is the point of law?

Well yes, but Ken's question is much less philosophical than that. Banning abortion wouldn't stop abortion.

I have guy friends who talk about how they hate wearing condoms. Some say they won't even use them. Plus, when a woman relies on the man for providing or just wearing a condom, it is giving him the power over if she gets pregnant or not.

It always seems like it's the guys responsbility to use birth control (Condoms), I think this is wrong. Condoms are really uncomfortable, and woman have much more and less uncomfortable options to stop pregnancy. Plus, it is their womb that the baby would be in, so I think it should be their responsibility.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 13 May 2005 07:56

BainbridgeShred wrote: Well yes, but Ken's question is much less philosophical than that. Banning abortion wouldn't stop abortion.

Yes, and banning drug use doesn't stop drug use. Banning murder doesn't stop murder. In fact what crime is there that doesn't happen anymore because there is a law against it? What is the point of laws? Perhaps the only point of laws is that the people in power won't feel guilty when other people do stupid or selfish things? What more can they do than make a law against something - it's a choice to break a law. Even if you are starving and steal some bread - you're still making a choice. I guess what I'm saying is maybe laws are used so that the people trying to run society can make the individuals responsible for actions that are really symptoms of society. Dealing with an issue like abortion won't be solved by making abortions illegal. But if you're morally opposed to abortion you won't feel so bad about yourself for not being able to find a solution to the problem if you make it illegal - that means the person having the abortion is choosing to break the law - that's their problem. Except really it's not - really it's everybody’s problems - we just need to think about issues, not in how they effect us - but how they effect everybody.

I don't know, I don't know if this makes sense. I think it would be great if we lived in a world where people didn't have to go get abortions. But how could we achieve that world? We can do our best - we can combat poverty and raise standards in education. We can increase support for single mothers - so that they know they can cope perfectly well having a child at any age or time in their life. But even if we do all that - I have no doubt there will still be people who will have abortions - regardless of the law or the punishment for being caught. I guess all we can do is accept that and try our best to be tolerant of other people’s morals.

tuomoruutufan · Post by **tuomoruutufan** » 13 May 2005 08:36

the question of morning after pills being available is simple.

One morning after pill 40 bucks I dont think people would be running around buying handfulls of them. A mistake happens OH SHIT I have 3 days to scrape up 40 bucks and buy a morning after pill at walgreens. to where currently its more like OHSHIT i got 3 months to scrape up 500 bucks for an abortion.

Its an emergency contraceptive you over charge for it have some funds go to charities.

The fact is condoms break ( i know from experience)

there are bad circumstances/emergencys that give women a very good motive to abort/kill their baby.

This will never change and all im trying to say is if your going to bitch and complain about all there poor babys being aborted then start supporting a method to give women more options.

Like moxie said people have been having abortions with or without doctors and laws on there said.

I apologize on the shotty typing/grammar. I was in a rush.

Guest_2 · Post by **Guest_2** » 13 May 2005 11:31

I blame high school sex ed