No Hands. This is footbag!

[jon]

I totally understand what is being said; however this sort of thing does not bother me at all. Beyond repeated self serving that slows down each players time with the bag I do not worry about the 'flow' of the circle, or do I really worry about trying to make the circle seem like its a true group activity. Freestyle footbag, at least imho, is a fairly individualistic sport. I enjoy playing in circles because of the friendly group atmosphere and the ability to talk to other shredders while playing not because I feel we are engaged in a group/team sport. If someone wants to grab a pass with their hands (I know I am guilty of this and know that I did this in Ottawa this past weekend without even thinking about it ) it doesn’t take away from my enjoyment of the sport. If however it is taking away enjoyment from other people, then this is a serious issue, and I will strive to change for future circles.
I generally do not concern myself with how other people start their strings. It’s the strings that I am interested in and as far as I am concerned people can start them however they choose. This is ‘freestyle’ after all.

[Tsiangkun]

I just don't care to field passes that require a random awkward movement.

I'm pro self serving, and pro letting someone catch the bag and drop it to themselves if that's what they want to do. Some of us have vision defects that affect how far we can see things clearly, and passes often come from out of focus at odd angles. I see no problem with catching the pass and dropping the bag to yourself.

I still kick the bag before I start my strings because that's how I like to do it.


Where is the "I used to think it was bad form / against the rules, but Ellis and Dave visited San Diego 6 years ago and Dave repeatedly demonstrated the hand catch, walk to location, and shred technique. Over and Over and Over again, but nobody said anything, so I learned it as an acceptable form of play" option ?

[FlexThis]

[Allan]

I just don't get how people can be so selfish - as if it's all about you. I'm all for personal freedom, but why even play in a circle with other people at all if you're just going to do whatever you want?

None of that is to say that I think "I'm right and you're wrong" - if you're in a circle with me, do whatever you please. I just don't get it. Self-serving, catching passes, et cetera ... I just don't get it. I never say anything to "offenders" and I try not to let it effect my enjoyment of the game, but it does puzzle me so.

Bad eyesight? I don't understand how you can see the bag to shred it, but you can't see it to receive a pass. It doesn't make any sense at all to me. Maybe if I had bad eyes I'd understand better, but maybe I'd be wearing contacts or glasses or something to help that issue.

Beethoven's 9th is very soothing

[Colin]

Some of you older shredders better keep an eye on yourselves before you start sounding dogmatic .

Hands affecting the energy of a circle? Phht. The hand of GOD will be required to quash my love of the game.

I picked the first option.

[BalinorNZ]

I think kicking is a good skill to have, but lets be honest Allan, how reliable are your feet compared to your hands? There is a greater chance u will drop when recieving a pass or will drop when starting the string simply because its much easier to start a string from hand catch.
I think it's just an awkward waste of time droping because of bad pass or misjudged kick and then having to expect the next person in the circle to pass the bag back... I mean, so long as you don't drop more than once in your turn it's fine.
Also normally in the circles I play in, if you miss the first move in your string you can try again.

[Tsiangkun]

Bad eyesight? I don't understand how you can see the bag to shred it, but you can't see it to receive a pass. It doesn't make any sense at all to me.

It's the difference between three feet and eight feet. I don't really need to focus on the bag with prestine vision to shred, I SET THE BAG, I already have a more intimate understanding of the bags velocity and path than when SOMEONE KICKS THE BAG ACROSS THE CIRCLE.

I play primarilly on feel and sound rather than relying upon my sight, thus you are correct in your non-understanding of how vision works on shred vs receiving a pass. As you say, you don't wear glasses, so you don't understand how they collect sweat to the point of being worse than nothing. Contacts don't really work for me that well, you see, I have this mass of oddly formed blood vessels on the surface of my eye that prevents the contact lense from making contact across the surface of the eye in a uniform fashion, and when I blink, they come off and it feels like I have dust in my eye for the rest of the session.

[ptaku]

Hm.. I prefer to recive the pass with kick. I just like the feel when I have to controll bag out of even bad pass, do a few kick, and then run... BU it's just me... Have fun when you shred. It's all about having fun, isn't it?
But when the fact that someone uses his hands, or catch the bag with stall, or something else, is the cause that somebody has less fun from playing, means that it's something wrong with this person, not the one that uses his hands, or just don't want to kick the bag...

[Allan]

Some of you older shredders better keep an eye on yourselves before you start sounding dogmatic .

You're not calling me old, are you? I prefer to think of it as distinguished

Tsiangkun, I wasn't trying to sound quite like that. If your eyes are that bad, then I ain't got nothin' to say about whatever habits you wanna use to keep you in the circle

Exceptions are accepted, but I think what Elipsider was trying address was those people who do this "hand catch my pass" every time, for no reason other than just being plain lazy.

I agree with Lon. It's way more fun to play with people that can actually hack and dig passes than those that are all about their own trip.

Ack! What I am doing! workworkwork ...

[FlexThis]

[Tsiangkun]

I see, I don't actually catch the bag everytime it comes around to me, and I never drop the hand action to a toe stall because I need to do some kicks to get the rhythm and a good sense of where the bag is.

I haven't actually observed the hand catch every pass type of player in the wild, let alone the hand catch to toe stall variety.

[FlexThis]

[richardabshire]

Come on guys, its FREESTYLE. If you pay me to shred, then you might have something to say about how I shred. So many players have a legit reason for the things they do when shredding, but telling an adult how to shred is really reaching for something with a negative outcome. What is the focus of your shred, the crappy politcal passes or a solid run. I will take solid runs everytime. Next will be how many adds your allowed per run. This topic can only get out of hand. The guys I play with are so much fun to shred with that it keeps me going and spreading the shred. I am only one voice and one opinion, take anyway you want. I hope everyone had a great 4th. I spent my holiday watching my cat die in front of me. Believe, shred starts are of no concern in the real world.Enough said.Richard Abshire 21 years in and 40 more to go.

[Flipsider]

Exceptions are accepted, but I think what Elipsider was trying address was those people who do this "hand catch my pass" every time, for no reason other than just being plain lazy.

I agree with Lon. It's way more fun to play with people that can actually hack and dig passes than those that are all about their own trip.

Yes, exactly. Thank you for saving me the trouble of responding to the dozens of misinterprations of my comments, as is usually the case.

About players who are "all about their own trip," it *is* an issue. Good choice of words, by the way. Let me share a story from my first session as a Montreal local. I arrive and introduce myself to all the players, and everyone welcomes me. I get my stuff together and warm up solo for a few minutes, then step in a circle. The first time the bag comes to me, it is a really awful pass that I have no chance to keep in the air (even using my hands). I pick up the bag, and pass to the next guy, expecting him to be receptive enough to realize I missed my turn. He does not and goes on with his turn, self-serving twice. Everyone but him realizes what just happened. Ok, I cut the guy some slack, no big deal, he wasn't looking. Next time the bag comes to me, same... exact... thing... bad pass > I pass it > no passback > self-serve > self-serve. I turn around and leave, heading for another circle. I don't want to play with someone who has such a "me mindset." Unfortunately that was not the 1st nor the last time this has happened to me.

Now compare this guy to the player who denies (more like "omits") you a passback every single time, but takes 3 tries (or more!) each and every turn. I'm sure a lot of you have been in that situation. Is he any different from the first guy? No, just another example of the "me mindset," and equally oblivious. I'm not talking merely about self-serves, I am talking about the need to PLAY TOGETHER. That's what footbag is about no matter where or who you are.

So for me, using your hands to play footbag is detracting from the circle, because a player either does it because he is: a) not able to kick the bag, or b) overly concerned with starting his run the same way every time. I'm sure there are other reasons, but those are the most obvious. In the case of player "a," he really should take some time to learn his kicks so he can participate more in the circle and have more fun. Player "b" will probably play a lot better if he doesn't depend on minute, useless habits, and will also have a more fun, participatory experience. Again, I am not directing this at anyone specific. Thanks for reading.


Later,
Ellis

p.s. Anyone have someone get mad at them for not self-serving? That always cracks me up.

[FlexThis]

[Tsiangkun]

I think it's important not to expect everyone around the world to love and embrace the same local rules as your groups observes.

It's supposed to be fun, and fun comes in many different flavors. You know how when a self server steps into a "One True Way" circle, and the flow and energy is disrupted by their hedonistic selfish actions ?

It's the same thing when someone joins a "self serving okay" circle and tries to force that group to play by the "One True Way" . It's a selfish behavior that distracts from the energy of the circle and feeling of belonging.

Richie hit it on the head, adults don't like to be told how to freestyle. Either join the group and play by the local rules, or go somewhere else. Don't be selfish and try to mold every circle to fit the religion of the "One True Way".

Of course, I still think it's best to be at least able to kick the bag a few hundred times.

[FlexThis]

[Jeremy]

I guess it's about patience and why you play footbag. You should come down to Hobart, Ellis, and see what the scene is like here. There is only ever one circle - even if it has 10 players in it. The concept of two circles somehow is not understood. Players do not pass to the next player - but to any player and you never get a pass back.

Ok it's not always that bad but sometimes it is. Yet I never feel an urge to leave the circle or even get angry with the other people. Sometimes I start feeling like I haven't touched the bag in 20 minutes and wishing it would come my way but I have a lot of fun - maybe even more fun - seeing people improve and learn and have fun playing footbag. I find it really rewarding to see a guy hit atw for the first time, even if he's spent 10 minutes self serving to do it.

I would probably be happy to go down to the weekly kick and just coach people the whole time without touching the bag at all - it's still heaps of fun to just hang out, talk about random stuff, drink beer (where we play has an alcohol licence even though it's just a public lawn/path and there is one of the biggest markets in Australia going on next to us - so plenty of opportunity to try some fantastic alcohol ), and sometimes do some freestyle.

The other thing is if somebody does something I don't like. For example scraping my footbag on the ground with their toe - I immediatly tell them "hey that's not cool. Please don't do that" and they always respect what I say. Perhaps if you don't like people self serving or not giving you passbacks - you should say so. People may never figure it out if they don't get told.

[shreddaily]

drrrr I'm not a big fan of the whole catch and drop thing, but as far as NO HANDS goes I think that is retarded because you should use your hands to pick up the bag after a drop and then throw someone a nice pass (so they don't HAVE to catch with their hands). I'm pretty sure you didn't realy mean "NO HANDS at all" did you E??? If you did we're using your bag the next time we kick. (retorical)
I think these crazy west coasters have it right. I'd never self serve in front of Sunil or Pete but I can have just as much fun kciking with self servers and even self serving myself. Its very liberating. Again go with the flow, if people don't play the way you like, walk away, or get over it and join in on the fun.

[Paul Agostinelli]

im far from disrespecting the big guys like pete and ellis (it was a pleasure to meet/ kick this weekend) but when i get a pass i try to kick it a couple of times, but if my rhythm is off and i know im gonna drop if i kick more i catch it, and usually drop to toe or clipper to start a run. i dont think its any disrespect and when a bag is passed to me, once i have it, its mine to do with what i like (except of course destroy and/or run away with it ) if i need to do the jorden thing (roll it a couple of times and then drop it) i will if i think itll make my string start more comfortably. when i catch a pass from someone else, its either because im not ready yet, or because im trying a trick thats too hard for me to string into so i have to drop to it. ive only been around the sport for less than half a year, but ive been to 6 tourneys in that time and played in a lot of circles and ive noticed that the newer the circle (newer players) the more hand catches and self serves and drops in general there are. whenever someone drops in their first couple of tricks and then passes it to me, i immediately pass it back, more often than not with a kick. and in the older circles, i dont feel the need to be intimidated, or to treat them as if they were inhuman, its FREESTYLE footbag, do-what-you-can>pass>rpt.

One thing i have noticed is that when someone is trying a trick that is just beyond their reach and they try twice or three times and drop each, ill pass it back and in one try they hit it, i think it feels great to pass back to someone and see them hit it that next try.

as i prefaced this entire rant with, i mean no disrespect, but i believe just as much disrespect to not give lower level players their credit where its due,

~NEL~