Vasek and Honza continues...in better quality

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 12 Apr 2009 20:16

Ok my computer is messing up and won't let me post a screen shot right now, you'll have to wait, but I can say with all certainty that the whirr you've posted (from worlds 2006, in case people are wondering) is definitely 100% the, and the one before it is really, really thin - you can't be sure from the video if it's definitely 'the' or not, but at best he dexes the bag with no more than the very end of his toe.

With the whirr you just posted, go 2 frames back. His leg is completely vertical and the bag is clearly below his foot.

Abe · Post by **Abe** » 12 Apr 2009 20:26

Jeremy wrote:I feel I should clarify something. When I said that if the bag is below Vasek's foot the move is 'the' I was clearly talking about a vertical plane of dex (that is, his foot going around an imaginary vertical line). If Vasek does whirrs where his foot does not go around an imaginary vertical line, but around a different angle then the bag can be below his foot, but it still has to be within the circle he is making with his foot.

Hmmm, now i see where are opinions actually differ. Yes, I completely agree with you that if vasek is dexing around a vertical line and the bag is below his foot with move with out a doubt is 'the.' But, what I'm arguing is that part of vasek's whirrs dex's actaully go around a horizontal line. At the point in time of the picture vasek has already cleared the first half of the second dex and is beating the bag to the ground on a horizontal line.

Try it your self, start an around the world on your right foot, in to out. The bag sets and you get your foot to the front of the bag with the first half of the dex cleanly around the bag. Now imagine this trick is actually ss toe whirl, you foot comes up and down around the bag around a horizontal line for the second half of the dex, the bag might fall below your foot at this point, but there's no need to worry, its still clean.

But really those two pictures look almost identical to me, and please check out the 2006 whirrs for yourself, they are clean. Yes it's close...

But clean.

Oh and here's the second one,

Clean in my opinion, and Honza's too I'm sure (this was the whirr i originally grabbed from).

Also I'm not sure what you mean by "In that screen shot the bag is perpendicular to a line drawn from his foot to his knee." I mean can't you draw a perpendicular line from a point to any line in space? If you clarify maybe I'll understand your point better.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 12 Apr 2009 20:37

Imagine a line from the centre of his knee to straight down his shin to the bottom of his foot. Now imagine that line is the centre of a cylinder that extends for whatever distance you like away from his foot. That's his dexing circle. If the bag is below that cylinder then the trick is 'the' because it's not in the circle he's making with his foot. A 'dex' in footbag is when you circle the bag with your foot. If the bag is not in that cylinder you're not circling it with your foot.

If you post the screen shot from 2 more frames ahead of the one you just posted, the bag is undeniably outside of that circle - he's not circling around the bag, he's circling above it.

edit; Perpendicular means at 90 degrees to. So if you draw your line from knee to foot then the footbag needs to be 90 degrees to some point on this line.

Abe · Post by **Abe** » 12 Apr 2009 22:24

Ok I see what you mean. Will give some thought to this. It's just odd, because it's just a tiny portion of the dex, and it's even apparent in the clean 2007 dex's if you look closely.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 12 Apr 2009 22:53

If that's the case I was wrong about those moves and they are also 'the.'

I try to give the benefit of the doubt unless I'm sure.

edit; Having reviewed the video I'm not sure you're right. For the first two, you can never see if the bag is outside his dexing circle or not. For the last one and the barroque you can tell that it is.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 12 Apr 2009 23:10

Just for the record, here is a better pic of the original whirr that stemmed this discussion.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 14 Apr 2009 11:09

Don't think of it as 'the', just realize it is clean in a way that only some people can understand.

Lycanthrope · Post by **Lycanthrope** » 19 Apr 2009 10:46

I think these pictures demonstrate how huge vasek's calves are in proportion to his skinny little white body.

we should shred more and argue less imo.

also. we need better terminology. what does 'the' mean...? we should say unclean probably, but that's two syllables and we're lazy, so i propose we use 'uck' or 'uc' meaning unclean. unless anyone knows what the REALLY means?

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 19 Apr 2009 11:05

Holy cow Vasek can get his knee high! I need to stretch more...

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 20 Apr 2009 07:21

"The" is a pretty vacuous word that doesn't really mean much, just like tricks that aren't done right are pretty much meaningless.

mikeanello · Post by **mikeanello** » 20 Apr 2009 09:17

shreddaily wrote:Holy cow Vasek can get his knee high! I need to stretch more...

I second this one.