The Sterility of Footbag

wolfpac444 · Post by **wolfpac444** » 30 Mar 2004 16:30

I too enjoy the feeling of "technical precision". I enjoy the feeling I get when I am able to make my body do exactly what I want. If someone else thinks that I'm fun to watch, good; if not, then so be it.

jimmyjames · Post by **jimmyjames** » 31 Mar 2004 17:28

I agree with some points brought up by each side of this discussion, and with respect to that I really don't have anything new to add.

But for Jeremiah, you might want to check out some videos of Lon Smith and Jonathan Schneider. They are two of my favorite shredders to watch and both have a unique, individual style that they created themselves. They both show a mastery of the technical and aesthetic parts of freestyle.

I think it's great that you are trying to be unique and create an original style for yourself. Good luck with that; I am also on a quest for the same thing.

http://www.monsterhack.com/gallery/video/smith1.wmv this is all Lon Smith

http://www.monsterhack.com/gallery/video/euro1.mpg I'd recommend watching the whole thing, but pay speical attention to Jonathan Schneider's parts at around :26 seconds into the vid. He's the guy in the black shirt, black shorts, and red lavers who does a lot of swirls and dragons.

http://www.monsterhack.com/gallery/video/euro2.mpg Same as above: Check out Jonathan's parts at 1:00 and 2:19.

http://www.monsterhack.com/gallery/video/euro3.mpg
Jonathan Schneider's part is at 2:16 .

Also noteworthy is Ales Zelinka's style in all of the euro videos. It is very appearant that he spends a lot of time perfecting his smooth balanced style. All the shredders on these videos have a different style. All of them are very talented.

I hope you continue to play footbag and eventually foster a greater appreciation for other players. I think if you give the many other players out there a chance you might just recognize and enjoy some of their styles. Also appreciation for the technical aspects and tricks of freestyle takes time, so be patient.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 01 Apr 2004 00:18

I think what he is trying to say is that what footbag lacks is what figure skating or gymnastics have, for example. they have the atheletes pushing themselves to the limit and really stretching the boundaries of what can by done in their medium, just as in footbag. But at the same time they are really putting alot of effort into the artistic part of their routines. they pracitce not only the tricks endlessly, but also the grace and flow and expression and all that shit.

I'm driven by personal achievement. Everyday I play, and everyday I get better. seeing that happen has given me so much more confidence in myself in so many other aspects of my life.

that's why I play footbag. I play because I love footbag.

Thom · Post by **Thom** » 01 Apr 2004 12:07

Just adding to Jimmy James post, the first time I watched the euro1 vid and I saw Jonathan Schneider's dragons and swirls I was like

. I just had to watch it over and over again.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 01 Apr 2004 19:26

Thanks James, thanks Thomas.

Thanks Joe Crain for filming and thanks Wicked for posting it.

Zeke · Post by **Zeke** » 01 Apr 2004 23:46

There are several different ways to play with a footbag. And each way has its own rules and different aspects to it that people will find fun and intriguing (or not). People should definately try the different disciplines/games (net & 4 square to name a few) and find what suites them best. But that's not to say those are your only choices, new games could be invented.

The main thing is to find something that's fun for you.

For me:
-hitting a new trick is fun
-getting a cirlce of 12-15 drunk hackers to all kick a footbag before it drops is fun
-finding new people to kick with is fun
-watching history in the making as the new guy/girl hits a new trick is fun
-spiking a footbag over a 5 foot net is fun (only ever did it once, but it was fun every time

)
-trying a new trippy serve in 4 square is fun
-getting brand new freestyle bags is fun

I LOVE FOOTBAG!!!!!!!!!

ShredPirate · Post by **ShredPirate** » 02 Apr 2004 05:32

you can still be technical and precise while also making your own style. it's not JUST one or the other, it can be both.

TrueBalance · Post by **TrueBalance** » 02 Apr 2004 14:23

Christopher is a juice whore.

ShredPirate · Post by **ShredPirate** » 02 Apr 2004 15:34

i'm a juice whore? i do like juice alot, but not the juice footbag.
hey sam ill be in LA the 9th, 10th and 11th. so around easter.

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 03 Apr 2004 02:53

The other posibilty is that you(Jeremiah) are a HACKY SACKER.
And there is nothing wrong with that. My friends have made all the points you have made about what footbag is lacking. If you like the idea of keeping the bag in the air and random coolness of hacky sack tricks than THATS YOUR GAME.
In my town we have two circles: the hackers and the footbaggers. And we stay in segrigated circles 90% of the time because we like it that way. I still respect the hackysackers and they have moves and style I don't, but watching a hacky sackcircle is as BORING to me as watch a shred circle is to you.
Hacky Sack is awesome but very different from footbag.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 03 Apr 2004 07:08

desegregate ! desegregate!

i was thinking about this too a while ago, how it seems like almost all footbaggers learn the same tricks in the same order. I know this is not preventable because there are only so many tricks, but maybe it makes it more boring. In the future if there are a lot of people playing and they are all hitting the same tricks, and there are many people with very similar styles, i think it will get too repetetive.

Of course the only reason you should play is because you are having fun, so none of this matters

comastalker · Post by **comastalker** » 04 Apr 2004 05:31

about that community thing :

Is there any freestyle sport where this doesn't apply ?
Has anyone of you ever seen a skateboarder who "needs"
his friend ? Or has anyone of you ever seen breakdancers
realting to the communtiy more than just dancing next to
each other. We are doing a sport not a party. I like playing
with other ppl, but I also like the fact, that I always am able
to shred alone at home

joplick · Post by **joplick** » 06 Apr 2004 06:26

what also makes this sport so fun is that we (the current footbag community) are shaping the sport right now. we are the future and we can evolve this sport into any direction we want.

what helps make each persons style unique is that each person usually focuses on different tricks. i absolutely love the fact that it is still possible for me in the future to do something that no one else has ever done before, and whenever i hit a 10 or longer string without any toe delays, it feels like drinking 5 cups of coffee, but in a good way.

shred hard!

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 15 Jun 2004 19:12

Hooping is with the arms.

When it's done with the fingers in a circle or diamond, it's called "Lautting" I think.

Hooping is easy compared to the latter.

-n

Zippo · Post by **Zippo** » 15 Jun 2004 22:40

I have to say to that u mentioned about classical artists that play with only precision, and how that's not art. I Strongly disagree.

Think about say a car, how precise it's engine has to be to run correctly, and well. how precise of design went into the engineering of the car and the precision used in the building of the car. To me that is beautiful and in it's own way, art.

so i find that the precision of footbag it beautiful/artistic all it's own, although yes there needs to be flow as well (it would be now fun it we were all machine like in our tricks/linking of tricks), but everyone has diffrent types of moves they like to use, and this in part is what creates their unique style.

So really something 'artist' by definition is how u intepret it, so though u may not see modern freestyle as artistic, i (and many others) see it as very artistic, in it's own way.

ericksonj · Post by **ericksonj** » 16 Jun 2004 16:22

I agree with Nate entirely. Here in Eugene we have a huge problem with hacky sackers hating the sport and art of footbag. They are in fact two different things as experienced by both parties in Eugene. We have VERY hardcore hacky sack players that devote a lot of time to random moves and stalls... They are just as serious and devoted as us it seems to hacky sack. Many of these people absolutely hate footbag and think it has no style at all.

Nate is one of the styliest players I can think of, and when he goes into a very croud pleasing ducking/diving/spinning routine and does not worry about technical shred... they still seem to not appreciate it. This of course does not apply to everyone, but I would not confuse footbag with hacky sack. If you are wanting to integrate break-dancing into hacky sack, then that is cool, but it is not footbag in my opinion. I personally love the flow from trick to trick, and there is almost no one who has every trick dialed. Even vasek has his choice moves, and much style comes from that.

In my opinion the only people who can truly understand footbag are those that watch it all the time, or play it all the time. It took me forever to identify moves on the fly and actually understand everything about a run. Before that it was just quick moving legs and stalls... much harder to appreciate if you don't understand it fully.

Have fun with footbag or hacky sack, and if you don't, then don't play because fun is what its all about.

ebo · Post by **ebo** » 17 Jun 2004 01:20

Interesting thread.

Jeremiah wrote:there was one more comment I had forgotten to make: the loss of community. When you go to shred sessions, everyone does their own thing, no one passes: they do their own set of tricks, then igve it to the next person. There's high-fives and stuff when you do something good, but there's basically no interaction, no depending on other people.

Jeremiah, have you tried either Footbag Net or Freestyle Doubles? Both
are Team sports where you are quite dependant on your team partner.

Maybe that's more along your lines.

cheers,

bjoern

richardabshire · Post by **richardabshire** » 17 Jun 2004 09:12

Shredding and hack are two completely different mind states. The style in shred is deep and focused where hack is more playful and relaxed. A shred style depends on the body type and moves hit. A perfect Jani walker is so pretty to watch and more exciting when in a combo. I think you should get a bit better in order to explore the true meaning on shred. Shred is for the focused and hard core players who want to push the edge of footbag. Hack style comes in a very short period of time due to the lack of tricks and difficulty. Style has to emerge in hack, because what else is there when playing hack. If you are new to this level, give it a chance to show you something before giving up. Hope this helps,Richie